To want to nip this in the bud ( LGBTQ views , child )

[Calmorchaos]

I’m after some advice really on how to approach this.

I have always been the type of person to support anyone to be who they are. I’ve never shied away or shielded my children from the world - very much a ‘love is love’ person and always encouraged my children to support those who need it and be inclusive ( in terms of people being bullied , disabilities etc too ) .

My youngest is going into high school ( 11 ) . Over the past few months I’ve noticed a few comments such as “ there are 2 genders “ , “ I don’t support LGBTQ “ . I’ve addressed this in the moment . But recently he found out his new school has an LGBTQ assembly on a monthly basis and he has started saying he doesn’t want to go because “ he doesn’t support it” . I sat down and had a chat with him , I explained to him that it isn’t really his place to choose to not agree with it - it’s not a choice , i explained it as he could say he doesn’t agree with people eating meat as that is a choice he would be making , but someone’s sexuality is their feelings and not a choice.

I am sure comments will allow me to explain more how the conversation went from my side so I won’t drag this post on with that but his comments were unnerving :

• he believes someone chooses to be gay , they can control it but they choose it
• we can choose who we fall in love with
• if a friend of his told him he was gay he would still be friends with them but not as good because they chose to be gay and he doesn’t support it.

I know he is very young and he doesn’t understand and has things to learn. He is the sweetest boy and the way he said these things sounded scripted as though he has heard others say this . I know he is a child and it’s my job that guide him and that’s the advice I’m asking for , how do I address this? I’m not saying I need him to go around advocating I just don’t want these views becoming ingrained and he becomes the reason another student who is struggling, struggles more. I know I may be overreacting but this age and as the years go on is a time that he can be heavily influenced . He’s a quiet, sweet boy and I do believe he could be heavily influenced.

Another concerning thing is that when I asked him where he had heard all this and where it comes from he said his Dad .

I’m very sorry you’re upset.

If you could just explain WHY you think there is a difference between the Andrew Tate type homophobia (he seems to think men sleeping with men is wrong but also that it’s fine if one of those men identifies as a woman) and TQ+ homophobia that effectively denies that sexual orientation is based on biological sex and actually everyone needs to accept that ‘identity’ is more important than sex?

I’ve just listened to a very interesting episode 12 of the Inciteful Sisters podcast with Jo Bartosch where she mainly discusses the effects of porn on society but also looks at the similarities between Andrew Tate’s attitude towards women and homosexuality and those of Stonewall (as self appointed arbiter of all things trans and trainer of very many major organisations). You might find it answers some of your questions.

Being trans is a real and legitimate form of human diversity. Trans people can't help who they are and deserve that their humanity, dignity and rights are upheld.

They are just male or female like everyone else

Nope

Ok come on now @Tandora . You know that men who say they are women are men. You don't think a man who has fathered children and 'transitioned' later in life suddenly becomes a third sex because he got a bit too in deep in his wife's underwear drawer.

This is ridiculous but it does underlie the extent to which the ideology has warped people's minds. Gad Sadd named it the Woke Mind Virus. He wasn't wrong.

This is anti trans propaganda. It’s a shame that this has taken over a thread about homophobia.

Homophobia is a belief that being gay is wrong , and should be changed. Where such attitudes exist they should be challenged through education and exposure to diversity.

Challenging your incoherence is not 'propaganda'.

You know that there are only 2 sexes.

I understand you believe that transness is incoherent . This is simply because you don’t understand it.

Oh I understand it only too well.

You don't seem to understand that all humans are one of 2 sexes so not sure you are in a position to accuse someone of misunderstanding.

ok.

I'm a bit tired of the constant complaints that this thread is "about homophobia" and nothing to do with gender identity when the first example of conversation the OP gave was around there being 2 genders.

Can you actually explain WHY you think Shedmistresses post is anti trans propaganda and not just the truth?

It would save an awful lot of repetitive posts on your part and you never know, you might even convince us if you came up with a coherent argument to support your statements.

Some evidence as to the nature of this ‘third sex’ and when it was discovered would also be helpful.

And while you’re at it, can you explain why the gender ideologists claim that ‘identity’ should supersede biological sex, even in the case of sexual orientation, is not homophobic?

I’ll go and make myself a nice cup of tea and dd has made some nice Bakewell tarts and will look forward to reading your thoughts.

A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject

Quite.

And her subsequent post confirmed that

a) she believes that her son’s views on sex and gender are ‘lumped together’ with the ‘homophobia’.

And b) she isn’t even sure what her sons father actually said to him, whereas we know that the school is teaching him very confusing things about people changing sex (or gender or whatever new and slippery lie the trans activists have come up with) which obviously affects the name of your sexual orientation.

Yet I have copped all sorts of abuse from some posters who claim to be against ‘homophobia’ but are perfectly happy to accept homophobia as espoused by Andrew Tate that has caused serious harm to quite a number of vulnerable young people. Like Ritchie Herron and Keira Bell for example.

It’s blatantly clear it’s about homophobia, the fact you want to ignore that and the impact it has on gay teens to take over and monopolise to push your cause using a less than tenuous link is pretty shameful.

Of course it's about homophobia! It can be about that and also about the rest of the cause especially in schools today, gay teens don't get much of a look in compared to the focus on gender identity.
Im not sure if you really don't understand me or are just being difficult.

Ok. So you have no explanation, point, argument or anything?

I wonder how you came to your current position without understanding why you think what you think? It’s quite bizarre.

A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject - Winston Churchill
General summary:
“This quote emphasizes that a fanatic's unwavering commitment to their beliefs prevents them from engaging in meaningful discussion or considering alternative viewpoints. They are unable to re-evaluate their position or acknowledge the validity of other perspectives, and they also refuse to shift the focus of conversation away from their singular, often narrow, focus.”

That does seem to reflect your approach to this, yes. What a startling blast of self awareness. Despite all evidence, including the OPs posts, presented to the contrary, you continue to insist that this thread is only about some mysterious and hitherto (undefined on this thread) type of homophobia and the 11 yr old bits views absolutely definitely 100% didn’t come from the admittedly inadvertent but homophobic teachings at school.

❤️

OP is not concerned with her son being gender critical, and says it is for him to make his own mind up on that.

She is concerned that, in his head, he is lumping together his skepticism of "gender identity" with his views on the validity of same-sex attraction. I.e. that his views on the T (doesn't believe in it) are driving his attitudes towards the L, G & B (now doesnt believe in those, either - other than as a conscious choice people make).

I'm sure most people in this thread acknowledge that it is possible (indeed, common) to be gender critical and not be homophobic, so the validity-or-not of his apparent gender critical views are irrelevant - the OP gave context on what she thinks is the root cause - him (as an 11 yr old) mistakenly conflating two different issues because of their inclusion in the acronym.

I'd expect people to say "see, this is why "T" doesnt belong in the acronym and its unhelpful to include it there, tell your some that [....]". That would be relevant - debating the merits of T as an ideology is not.

I mean, this is factually incorrect given that intersex people exist.

No it isn't, as all people with DSDs are one sex or the other.

What third sex do you think people with DSDs are?

People who have differences of sexual development are not a third or fourth sex.

If you are going to use the term 'Factually incorrect' you might want to fact check your own comments.

I didn’t say they were a different sex. You said all humans are one of two sexes. Intersex people can have characteristics of both sexes. Either physically, hormonally or via chromosomes.

DSDs do not make a new sex category.

A man with a penile hypospadia is still male. Having a differently developed sex organ doesn't mean one has changed sex.

How you “categorise” things is social and scientific judgement and convention.

The fact is that sex is a multidimensional (developmental) variable .

For the most part the different components that make up “sex” align into two distinct groups. There are people’s whose bodies combine components from different groups.

These are scientific truths you can’t just cover them with rhetorical /
linguistic refrains to make them disappear.

No Tandora. Let's go over this again.

Has the body evolved on a path to make small gametes (male).

Or large ones (female).

Thats the pertinent question

So how is it ‘factually incorrect’ to say that all humans are one of 2 sexes?

Even if, as you claim, a person had characteristics of both sexes, it doesn’t make them both sexes - it makes them their sex with abnormalities.

For example men like Caster Semenya and Imane Khelif have 46 XY 5-ARD. The media have finally admitted that they both have this condition and have lied extensively about their sex.

“5-alpha reductase deficiency is a condition that affects sexual development before birth and during puberty. People with this condition are genetically male, with one X and one Y chromosome each cell, and they have male gonads (tests)
Their bodies, however, do not produce enough of a hormone called dihydrotestosterone (DHT). DHT has a critical role in male sexual development, and a shortage of this hormone disrupts the formation of the external sex organs before birth
Many people with 5-alpha reductase deficiency have external genitalia that appears female. In other cases, affected infants have male-typical external genitalia, often an unusually small penis (micropenis) and the urethra opening on the underside of the penis (hypospadias). Still other affected infants have external genitalia do not look clearly male or clearly female.
During puberty, an increase in the levels of male sex hormones leads to the development of some secondary sex characteristics, such as increased muscle mass, deepening of the voice, development of pubic hair, and a growth spurt. The penis and scrotum (the sac of skin that holds the testes) may grow larger. People with 5-alpha reductase deficiency do not develop much facial or body hair. Most affected individuals are unable to have biological children (infertile) without assisted reproduction.
medlineplus.gov/genetics/condition/5-alpha-reductase-deficiency/

You might want to read up on the actual medical facts around DSDs rather than the lies and propaganda spread by people who will exploit any group if they think it helps further embed the lies. You may be astounded at how much you’ve been lied to.

The fact is that sex is a multidimensional (developmental) variable

Is this the new ‘sex is a spectrum’ line that trans activists use? Still not true. We are either male or female, stop ‘othering’ people with DSDs and pretending they are not.

For the most part the different components that make up “sex” align into two distinct groups. There are people’s whose bodies combine components from different groups.

We are not Lego. Development abnormalities are just that, abnormalities. Some people’s hearts don’t develop properly, some people have chromosomal abnormalities that manifest in other symptoms. DSDs are just an abnormality in a particular area of development. There is a large range, some only become obvious at puberty when normal puberty for the sex doesn’t progress. All are either male specific abnormalities or female specific. They have inherited ‘components’ from the opposite sex.

These are scientific truths you can’t just cover them with rhetorical/linguistic refrains to make them disappear.

Eh? You are not presenting any scientific truths Tandora - you know this.

Chromosomes are our basic cell data. They are in every cell of our body. There are no ‘hormone components’ - our hormones are a result of our sex chromosomes determining what our pituitary and reproductive glands produce.

Therefore every cell in Imane Khelif’s body (to give a recent example) is XY. He is male with abnormal genitalia for a male. It is not female genitalia or a female reproductive system - he has internal testes. We are not built of ‘components’ in that sense.

People with DSDs have repeatedly asked that the trans activists stop trying to pretend they are an example of being both male and female. They are people with a rare medical condition which is being appropriated by trans activists to try and undermine the sex binary. Every one is either male or female and to claim otherwise is offensive, incorrect and othering for them.

It’s fascinating how you think (presumably) you are being kind but you are actively working to the detriment of women, children and people with a health affecting medical condition and in your pursuit of advantage for ‘trans’.