To want to nip this in the bud ( LGBTQ views , child )

[Calmorchaos]

I’m after some advice really on how to approach this.

I have always been the type of person to support anyone to be who they are. I’ve never shied away or shielded my children from the world - very much a ‘love is love’ person and always encouraged my children to support those who need it and be inclusive ( in terms of people being bullied , disabilities etc too ) .

My youngest is going into high school ( 11 ) . Over the past few months I’ve noticed a few comments such as “ there are 2 genders “ , “ I don’t support LGBTQ “ . I’ve addressed this in the moment . But recently he found out his new school has an LGBTQ assembly on a monthly basis and he has started saying he doesn’t want to go because “ he doesn’t support it” . I sat down and had a chat with him , I explained to him that it isn’t really his place to choose to not agree with it - it’s not a choice , i explained it as he could say he doesn’t agree with people eating meat as that is a choice he would be making , but someone’s sexuality is their feelings and not a choice.

I am sure comments will allow me to explain more how the conversation went from my side so I won’t drag this post on with that but his comments were unnerving :

• he believes someone chooses to be gay , they can control it but they choose it
• we can choose who we fall in love with
• if a friend of his told him he was gay he would still be friends with them but not as good because they chose to be gay and he doesn’t support it.

I know he is very young and he doesn’t understand and has things to learn. He is the sweetest boy and the way he said these things sounded scripted as though he has heard others say this . I know he is a child and it’s my job that guide him and that’s the advice I’m asking for , how do I address this? I’m not saying I need him to go around advocating I just don’t want these views becoming ingrained and he becomes the reason another student who is struggling, struggles more. I know I may be overreacting but this age and as the years go on is a time that he can be heavily influenced . He’s a quiet, sweet boy and I do believe he could be heavily influenced.

Another concerning thing is that when I asked him where he had heard all this and where it comes from he said his Dad .

I’ve got a very healthy psychological state thank you. You’ll see that most of my posts are in response to being quoted. Have you accused the posters quoting me of being obsessed too? What about the one who took time out of their day to search out and count my posts? 🤣

What about the ones who called me ‘freak’ and ‘homophobic’ and ‘disgusting’ for rightly pointing out that prioritising ‘gender identity’ over biological sex is homophobic - you got any criticism for them or is it just me?

There’s quite a few around, especially in places like Brighton where the social contagion around trans identity is particularly widespread.

There are a range of types and motivations, from transsexual AGP Debbie Hayton (he confessed he had a fetish for himself as a woman) rewriting school toilet policy to allow male teachers to use female toilets to activists who run the LGBTQ clubs and ‘trans’ kids without their parents knowledge to the Stonewall champions who explicitly targeted children as young as 2 in nurseries.

Just because you haven’t noticed them doesn’t mean they don’t exist. I think the Transgender Trend website has more info.

Schools were all the teachers have pronouns in their email sign-offs, toilets changed to mixed sex ones in new builds, (new) pride flags in many classrooms, celebrating trans visibility day etc.
Not necessarily bad things - though I think some are - but it is noticeable in a way it wouldn't have been 10 years ago.

@Sskka, so do you believe that most boys today think that people attracted to same sex should not have gay relationships? Why do you think they believe that? Or did you mean something else?

Eh? What on earth are you talking about?

So you believe teens now think that being in gay relationships is bad & harmful?

Apologies if I misunderstood. You appeared to be saying this :
'most teenage boys think this now',
'that era is slipping away', '
the young aren't having that at all' ,
'they're live and let live bc they have to be'
'Not at all on board'
'Out of date'

All these comments appear to indicate that you believe the Op's son's views are common among Gen Z, or boys at any rate. That most of Gen Z think gay relationships are bad, should not happen, and that disagreeing w thus view is out of date.

IS this what you meant...?
Or have I misunderstood? Apologies if I have. 😊

I’d venture that most boys if you forced them to take a view would probably be mildly disapproving, but in general wouldn’t say much – but they really resent the celebration of it and being told what to think. That’s what I took from the OP, and I don’t think her son is saying anything out of the ordinary. But as I say you’re closer to it, why don’t you tell me?

Wtf? Most boys today would be “mildly disapproving” of someone being gay? And you think this is normal and ok?

It's not normal.. And it's not true. Teenagers are generally accepting of difference. If someone on here is encountering teenagers for whom it is normal, then perhaps they need to look at what is going wrong in their local community.

Men do tend to be less approving of gay relationships in general than woman are. But do you believe that most boys will hold onto these views,....and that adult men generally hold these views?

Moreover, do you agree w these views yourself?

I've seen a previous post of yours, where you say that you teach teens...thus seems to inform many of your views. May I ask what area of England you teach in?

As I said on the other thread, I'm Gen Z female. Most of my friends are female. I haven't really discussed lgbt issues w my male friends, the gay ones don't seem to suffer trouble. Otoh maybe disapproving views are hidden due to preference falsification, but most people I know are fairly progressive (not in a crazy woke way tho), so I don't think so.

My female friends don't disapprove of gay relationships. I'm bi myself & wouldn't specially want to hang w people who did, tho it would depend what other characteristics they had.

This is a lie.There are no safeguarding "rules" about running LGBT+ groups in schools.

Their is advice which hasn't been updated in the new edition of KCSIE which (I believe erroneously) states that parents should be consulted except in "exceptionally rare" cases where consulting the parents may put a child at risk of harm. In order to decide which cases are "exceptionally rare" the school staff need to treat each case individually and sensitively and make a call about the level of risk (just as they would do if a child was pregnant - for example).

KCSIE 2025 then goes on to reiterate that for "gender questioning" children having a safe adult is a protective factor. In many cases school provides that one safe adult and often this is through an LGBT+ group.

There are absolutely no safeguarding "rules" that state a parent must be told about attendance at an LGBT+ group. This lie needs to be stopped because it could take away the protective factor of a safe adult from many children.

The "NON-statutory DRAFT guidance on gender questioning children" released for CONSULTATION in Dec 2023 has never gone further than that draft consultation - nothing in there is for action. The guidance is expected to be finally published in September and when it is released will still not constitute "rules" because it will be NON-STATUTORY GUIDANCE.

Until you have had to have support a child taken into protective custody because of their family's reaction to them being LGBT+, you can't understand the importance of not having a one-size fits all blanket safeguarding "rule", that's not how safeguarding works.

The IPSOS poll shows large numbers of Gen Z men supporting gay adoption & marriage, albeit less than wimen. I'm curious, as I say, to know what area you are teaching in, roughly. It doesn't seem to stack up w wider Gen Z views as much as you appeared to think.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=www.ipsos.com/en-uk/ipsos-pride-survey-2024-gen-zers-most-likely-identify-lgbt&ved=2ahUKEwja86XDprqOAxX6SkEAHahXOo8QFnoECH4QAQ&usg=AOvVaw1_78iJwGZ4qDIw7msCPUoZ

Aha, I checked the post of yours I saw, Sskka, and I see that you were talking about your child's class, not a class you taught. Sorry for the confusion.

@AliasGrace47 Thanks for that. The north east, but no I’m not actually a teacher. I just observe the groups of teen boys I know and try to work it out from there (PS I don’t know what age you are, but personally I’m talking about younger teens). I’m not sure any of what we’re saying is actually that far apart? Mild disapproval, don’t say much, certainly the gay kids don’t get a hard time at all. That’s tolerance isn’t it? People can’t help feeling what they feel.

Can I ask, how do your peers feel about pride, etc and public celebrations? Because my impression is that the girls are still into it, but the boys are very much not.

People can’t help feeling what they feel.

people can’t help being “mildly disapproving” of gay people? “That’s tolerance”? Really?

I suspect what is happening here is projection..

Thank you, Sskka. That's interesting you are in the northeast. Obvs this is a stereotype (which nevertheless often are somewhat true) but the idea of Northern people being often more likely to disapprove of gay relationships (and more likely to hold sexist attitudes) does seem to hold some water. I don't think it is that likely to be accurate to generalise about Gen Z, or even Gen Z men as a whole, from the behaviour you have witnessed.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=www.sr-news.com/2018/05/03/the-rise-of-homophobic-attacks-and-incidents-in-the-north-east/%23:~:text%3DThere%2520have%2520been%2520more%2520than,of%2520187%2520attacks%2520and%2520incidents.&ved=2ahUKEwih3MyltbqOAxVIUEEAHSeBM1UQFnoECBMQBQ&usg=AOvVaw27sl8pUd2hlq98MFsrL2Wl

https://www.slideshare.net/slideshow/lgbtinthenecurrentdraft2/251516860

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/girls-girlguiding-england-government-london-b2209715.html&ved=2ahUKEwjhz5awtrqOAxXPZUEAHbgJGYkQFnoECDIQAQ&usg=AOvVaw1PTDPq0XwgbyoDm9CDVjqR

https://theconversation.com/what-its-like-growing-up-as-a-girl-in-the-north-of-england-104615

Well, there you go

I don't think the (straight) male friends I have are mildly disapproving of gay relationships. Admittedly I went to a fairly progressive school & uni (I'm 19) but a lot if people I know generally oppose woke stuff like trans etc (as do I, as you can probs guess fron my being here) so I think I'd probs know if they disapproved of this too.

That's the difference -I'm not convinced this mild disapproval is as widespread among teen boys as you say. OK these are younger teens, bit 5 years is not that far away.

As to whether people 'can't help feeling what they feel' (interesting these boys think that bit also believe people choose their attractions)- after all, if that were completely true, people would have no agency in what they believed, and wouldn't change their minds about anything.

I would agree ofc that it's good that people are tolerant even if they disapprove & are not bullying anyone.

However, I'd rather live in a world where the majority of boys aren't disapproving of gay relationships (or for that matter, other issues like women in supervisory roles, or women having choice over abortion in the early weeks)

My personal view is that disapproval generally among Gen Z boys is probs caused by the rise in reactionary messaging (Tate but also many others online), and the ridiculous woke stuff like trans, inappropriate Pride parades & over the top Pride obsession rather than practical things that would actually benefit gay people. My friends pf both genders, as I said are not disapproving of gay relationships, but most agree w me about the negative affect pf the above. I will also agree that over the top celebration of Pride & the sense of 'you must do this' is unhelpful as it singles people out as something other than a normal variation pf humanity, and triggers people who want to rebel.

Thank you, I can see all that

This is a lie.There are no safeguarding "rules" about running LGBT+ groups in schools.

How to make it crystal clear you have no idea about the basics of safeguarding.

Here are the basics summarised for you:

• Mandatory Reporting:
• Teachers have a legal and ethical obligation to report any concerns about a child's safety to the appropriate authorities.

• Confidentiality:
• While teachers must report concerns, they should also reassure children that their privacy will be respected as much as possible.

• Supporting Students:
• Teachers should provide support and guidance to students who have disclosed concerns, while also following the school's safeguarding procedures.

• Working with Parents:
• Teachers should collaborate with parents to ensure the child's safety, while also respecting confidentiality and privacy.

None of that says it is remotely ok or safeguarding about teachers running secret lunchtime clubs and encouraging children to keep secrets from their parents.

If there was a safeguarding concern for a child relating to their parents, then there are specific reporting procedures to be followed. They still do not include holding secret lunchtime clubs for children.

you can't understand the importance of not having a one-size fits all blanket safeguarding "rule", that's not how safeguarding works.

There IS a blanket, one size fits all safeguarding rule that says teachers keeping secrets with children is not safeguarding. And if there are concerns about a child’s safety at home then the appropriate agencies must be informed.

So we’re wheeling out the ‘feelings’ police now?

So now you are defending homophobia?

Where is this apparently quoted from? An AI summary isn't a legal document.

Besides this, what you have written doesn't say anywhere that parents have to be told about a child's attendance at an LGBT+ club. There are no secret clubs! Schools publish the list of extra curricular clubs available - attendance at a club is not a safeguarding concern that needs to be raised with parents.
You can't just make up stuff to suit your agenda. I quoted KCSIE 2025 which was released last week (and in fact doesn't become practice until September 1st).https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/686b94eefe1a249e937cbd2d/Keepingchildrensafeineducation2025.pdf

Which legal government document is your text taken from?