To want to nip this in the bud ( LGBTQ views , child )

[Calmorchaos]

I’m after some advice really on how to approach this.

I have always been the type of person to support anyone to be who they are. I’ve never shied away or shielded my children from the world - very much a ‘love is love’ person and always encouraged my children to support those who need it and be inclusive ( in terms of people being bullied , disabilities etc too ) .

My youngest is going into high school ( 11 ) . Over the past few months I’ve noticed a few comments such as “ there are 2 genders “ , “ I don’t support LGBTQ “ . I’ve addressed this in the moment . But recently he found out his new school has an LGBTQ assembly on a monthly basis and he has started saying he doesn’t want to go because “ he doesn’t support it” . I sat down and had a chat with him , I explained to him that it isn’t really his place to choose to not agree with it - it’s not a choice , i explained it as he could say he doesn’t agree with people eating meat as that is a choice he would be making , but someone’s sexuality is their feelings and not a choice.

I am sure comments will allow me to explain more how the conversation went from my side so I won’t drag this post on with that but his comments were unnerving :

• he believes someone chooses to be gay , they can control it but they choose it
• we can choose who we fall in love with
• if a friend of his told him he was gay he would still be friends with them but not as good because they chose to be gay and he doesn’t support it.

I know he is very young and he doesn’t understand and has things to learn. He is the sweetest boy and the way he said these things sounded scripted as though he has heard others say this . I know he is a child and it’s my job that guide him and that’s the advice I’m asking for , how do I address this? I’m not saying I need him to go around advocating I just don’t want these views becoming ingrained and he becomes the reason another student who is struggling, struggles more. I know I may be overreacting but this age and as the years go on is a time that he can be heavily influenced . He’s a quiet, sweet boy and I do believe he could be heavily influenced.

Another concerning thing is that when I asked him where he had heard all this and where it comes from he said his Dad .

This!!!!

Oh that's much better.

Jesus 😵‍💫

Your scaremongering and blatant ignoring and hijacking the serious issue of homophobia in schools is something really worth frothing over. Voicing boredom over something is not.

Again - THAT IS NOT WHAT THE THREAD IS ABOUT.

The OP gave a small amount of background context, where gender identity was referenced. It was not "a point".

When people started pressing her, she said that some people "feel" as though they are born in the wrong body. Again - she is not making a point. A gender critical person would say "yes, that is gender dysphoria" and needs treating, a trans-advocate would say it needs affirming. The OP says neither - that her son can make up his own mind.

The OP posted about her son's homophobic language and beliefs. Stop trying to shut that down.

For all those reading, this is how the 'be kind' types react to me sharing a story about a child who now has significant health problems after transitioning and detransitioning.

I didn't do any of that though.

Exactly this!!

And whilst we’re on the subject of LGBT clubs which are vital in school, many parents campaign for them, myself being one. Gay teens are at far bigger risk of bullying,suicide , school refusal and depression. LGBT clubs in schools cut homophobic bullying, school refusal and depression. To say all such clubs attempt to change the sex of gay kids is disgusting, defamatory to the teaching profession and homophobic.

There was a thread about biphobia just a couple of weeks ago that had to be taken down because it was flamed with pages of hateful comments - most of which either purposefully or inadvertently (eye roll) seemed to actually be about transgender people. Including people making the same "transgender ideology is homophobic" argument.

A thread about pride was also full of homophobic comments.

With a couple of persistent, gaslighting posters in here, I dont believe this is a coincidence.

They think they can ride the gender critical waive to drown out LG&B people too. While pretending its because they're against homophobia.

This site has become intolerable and unuseable for anyone who isnt straight.

You have done repeatedly and throughout this thread.

This, it’s just appalling.

That’s not a crime. If someone starts hurling homophobic slurs or making threats as a result of their belief that would obviously be a hate crime - based on the harassment.

But just holding those views or even expressing them to someone is not a crime.

Exactly. I’m taken aback by the extent to which some people on this thread can’t tell the difference between saying or believing unpleasant, nasty or unfashionable things, and actual crime.

If homophobia isn't nipped in the bud hate incidents can turn into hate crimes very easily for young impetuous and naive teens. Hate incidents can be reported to police too. It will be recorded as a non criminal hate incident. Data is often kept by local authorities too which is important to create a picture. Aside from anything on the basis of being a good human being homophobic views cause a huge amount of damage to gay people and don't really make you a nice person if you hold them.

Hate crime as defined by the CPS with the final paragraph being particularly relevant:

-Any criminal offence which is perceived by the victim or any other person, to be motivated by hostility or prejudice, based on a person's disability or perceived disability; race or perceived race; or religion or perceived religion; or sexual orientation or perceived sexual orientation or transgender identity or perceived transgender identity."

“There is no legal definition of hostility so we use the everyday understanding of the word which includes ill-will, spite, contempt, prejudice, unfriendliness, antagonism, resentment and dislike.”

This

Except that I don't think that's a level of sophistication within reach of an 11 year old. At that age it's more about who it's acceptable to hang out with or not. Basic stuff about tolerance. It's too young to go into gender debates. I see a lot of posts here saying 'separate the LGB from the T and Q' but to a child that age, that would basically be saying it's ok to be horrible to some people. Whatever your thoughts on the nature of transgenderism, the best message to a child is to say that some people have different sexual orientations and perceptions of themselves and that it's not for anyone to judge. Keep it simple.

I see a lot of posts here saying 'separate the LGB from the T and Q' but to a child that age, that would basically be saying it's ok to be horrible to some people.

Right.
(And they would not be wrong in their understanding either.)

To be clear, you think it's ok for a child to be horrible to transpeople?

No no! I was agreeing with you. Just adding that that is in fact the attitude of many mumsnetters.
But anyway , sorry , bit of a derail. You are absolutely right that that would be a problematic message to be delivering to a child as that is how they would understand it.

And OP also talked about the LGBTQ assemblies which obviously will have introduced gender ideology to 11 yr olds (the clue is in the name). She has told him about ‘born in the body’ fallacy (but as fact) and it sounds like he is understandably mightily confused, being an 11 yr old who is not necessarily ready to have these conversations and getting information that conflicts with reality from his mother and school.

Can you see the 11 yr old thought process? - If gender identity is more important than sex (the common message of LGBTQ messaging), and you can choose your sex (as the kids are told), then why can’t you choose to be gay?

For example if a female child is attracted to girls but then decides to ‘transition’ to become a boy then her relationships are ‘boy’ + girl which is a heterosexual relationship. Her decision would imply to the bystander (this 11 yr old) that she chose not to be gay. And funnily enough, he is absolutely right. His logic is spot on. Tavistock staff and Cass agree. “Transing away the gay”.

Similarly, if a man ‘transitions’ to become a woman but is heterosexual, remains attracted ti women but calls himself a lesbian.

Can you see the obvious 11 yr old logic there?

Remember just a few posts ago when you said "Your child needed an LGB club?" Well why on earth cant we have an LGB thread???
Yes, I was responding to a PP who says her son is gay and that she hates homophobia but can’t yet see how the LBGTQ industry is creating and furthering the ultimate homophobia (with its basic premise that gender identity is more important than sex and ignoring the fact that sexual orientation is based on our sexed bodies, not our identity - therefore literally denying the existence of homosexuality) and is a likely source of the 11 yr olds comments (as well as his father) and calls me nasty names when I try and explain. She is still convinced that is should be LGBT as you can see from her post below yours.
she said again
LGBT clubs are crucial and incredibly valuable.

I'm sure it would be very nice to have an LGB thread - but don’t blame me that trans activists have made that impossible. The TQ+ have hitched their wagon onto ‘gay rights’. and are inextricably linked in schools and life and are driving homophobic thinking into the minds of all children.

And if you think “well ‘trans’ is not a choice either so it’s the same as sexual orientation but just in a different box”, that’s very much not the case - choice is built into trans ideology. ‘Gender fluid’ or ‘non binary’ and the Pips Bunce types who claim to be male one day and ‘female’ the next, the changing of trans identities - a move from ‘trans non binary’ to ‘transgender’ is very common - framed as self realisation but actually just a worsening mental health choice. And then you’ve still got the massive logic fail which says a man can be a lesbian if he identifies as one.

Did you miss the trans identifying males who jumped into the Lesbian picnic thread on the Feminist board) to threaten the lesbians planning a women only gathering in London? They threatened to turn up in person and disrupt the event, they also contacted the London Authority and police and tried to get it shut down altogether. It’s all part of the same problem.

I gave the story of Ritchie HERRON to PP who is desperately trying to protect her child who sounds quite vulnerable and is perfect prey for the sort of people who convinced Ritchie, a gay man in his 20s, that he was really a woman. He realised this was not the case as soon as he woke up from his operation (that he was rushed into by his enablers) from remove his penis. He is now a gay man who is incontinent (a very common issue) without a penis. So his story is absolutely related to the OP but was intended for a PP.

It is interesting that a number of people purporting to be against homophobia would try so hard to shut down discussion about a homophobic movement that is currently indoctrinating 11 yr olds in schools and resulting in the thoughts that OP has raised as being an issue. Very odd.

As for your accusation of me being homophobic - are you actually serious?? Why is it homophobic to raise the issue if a seriously homophobic ideology being taught in schools? Have you said it so many times you’ve forgotten what it means?

You seem to be wanting to shoot the messenger. I am not scaremongering, it am reporting facts of stuff that is actually happening.

I strongly suggest you watch Ritchie Herrons interview that I linked earlier and understand the risks to vulnerable young gay men.

And again trans ideology diatribes- 12 paragraphs long!!!!

It’s not what this thread is about.

No it is not. You are scaremongering.