To want to nip this in the bud ( LGBTQ views , child )

[Calmorchaos]

I’m after some advice really on how to approach this.

I have always been the type of person to support anyone to be who they are. I’ve never shied away or shielded my children from the world - very much a ‘love is love’ person and always encouraged my children to support those who need it and be inclusive ( in terms of people being bullied , disabilities etc too ) .

My youngest is going into high school ( 11 ) . Over the past few months I’ve noticed a few comments such as “ there are 2 genders “ , “ I don’t support LGBTQ “ . I’ve addressed this in the moment . But recently he found out his new school has an LGBTQ assembly on a monthly basis and he has started saying he doesn’t want to go because “ he doesn’t support it” . I sat down and had a chat with him , I explained to him that it isn’t really his place to choose to not agree with it - it’s not a choice , i explained it as he could say he doesn’t agree with people eating meat as that is a choice he would be making , but someone’s sexuality is their feelings and not a choice.

I am sure comments will allow me to explain more how the conversation went from my side so I won’t drag this post on with that but his comments were unnerving :

• he believes someone chooses to be gay , they can control it but they choose it
• we can choose who we fall in love with
• if a friend of his told him he was gay he would still be friends with them but not as good because they chose to be gay and he doesn’t support it.

I know he is very young and he doesn’t understand and has things to learn. He is the sweetest boy and the way he said these things sounded scripted as though he has heard others say this . I know he is a child and it’s my job that guide him and that’s the advice I’m asking for , how do I address this? I’m not saying I need him to go around advocating I just don’t want these views becoming ingrained and he becomes the reason another student who is struggling, struggles more. I know I may be overreacting but this age and as the years go on is a time that he can be heavily influenced . He’s a quiet, sweet boy and I do believe he could be heavily influenced.

Another concerning thing is that when I asked him where he had heard all this and where it comes from he said his Dad .

Yes - which was in response to mine. It’s not weird in context (I assume that typo is “a boy or girl she appears to like).

I clearly move in very different circles to you.

Nothing to do with sticking fingers in ears, everything to do with age appropriateness.

When would you start referencing boyfriends? 7? 9? I'd be interested to know.

Let me remind everyone that the vast majority of 11 year olds haven't gone through puberty yet.

Same. And this is why I WANT my nieces, all of them, to talk to me openly (and nephews) for that matter.

So they have somebody they trust to talk to and I can ascertain if there is anything untoward or if talk of boyfriends / girlfriends / “flings” is actually just completely innocent.

I think you, like the other poster are rhinking of boyfriends / girlfriends in terms of adult relationships.

You don’t have to have gone through puberty to “fancy” people or show signs of liking people.

There is nothing not age appropriate about it. Especially in a conversation instigated by your younger family member.

"[So-and-so friend] fancies you" was absolutely standard language when I was in primary school, even before 11.

And I don't know where you're getting that JHound was "encouraging" anything, other than an allowing a child to be open about their feelings if they wished. Basic safeguarding.

I am thinking of romantic relationships, yes.

I'd say that's quite a standard understanding of the term.

If an11 year old is hanging out with someone, that would be a friend. Not a 'boyfriend' or 'girlfriend'.

Erm, because you said this

So you said I literally was talking to my niece today about this boy she met at a school camp. She clearly fancied him and I asked her if he was her boyfriend and she responded “I would like him to be”.

and then you said

But this notion that children are completely unaware of their sexuality is false. I have known far more young children than not have crushes.

When you say “I have known far more young children than not have crushes” are you now claiming that you were a child at the time? Because that’s really not how it sounded.

And as I pointed out, children talking to each other about crushes is one thing as they have generally similar levels of understanding but children talking to adults is entirely different as you went from your niece ‘fancying’ a boy (and I’m still not convinced that was her exact word) and took it to the next level of ‘boyfriend’ which she might not have done with a peer. That is the problem which you seem unable to understand.

And funnily enough as an 11 yr old I and my friends weren’t having those conversations as much as you imply is happening.

then you said Why do you think me knowing of children having crushes means:
”me talking to many kids about who they fancy”?
Why is that where your mind went?

My mind went there because you talked about your niece fancying a boy then started going on about how many ‘young kids’ have crushes.

Do you not read what you write at all? Or are you intending to write something completely different? Or are we speaking different languages?

Do you genuinely think it is ok for adults to encourage children to think about boyfriends at age 11? This feels like quite an 80s view. Mandy Smith anyone?

No it’s not really standard when discussing children.

I think most people would presume an 11 year saying “XX fancies” you means something massively different to a 25 year old saying the same.

Ditto an 11 year old saying “I have a boyfriend” means something very different to a 25 year old saying the same/

I'm talking about use of terms like boyfriend and girlfriend

See my edit.

But clearly things were very different at your school when no child had a crush and nobody spoke of fancying somebody till they had commenced puberty.

There are only two genders. He's not wrong there. It might help to encourage him to break down the LGBTetc acronym and think about different aspects of it.
The monthly assembly is odd. I suspect the school has gone a bit 'Soviet Agitprop' about it all. That would've irritated me too (I still hate it actually!)
The 'less good friends' thing is a pity, but something that will pass I suspect.
He's only 11.
But being 11 he's going to start forming his own opinions. Of course you can disagree with him, but how you disagree is important. If he feels shamed or 'shouted down' he'll just not tell you next time (remember when you said things that shocked YOUR parents) and you'll establish a pattern that could last a lifetime.
As for choosing to be gay, my 10yo DS will cheerfully tell me that such and such boy in his class is gay and then a week later they say they aren't gay any more and have a girlfriend blah blah. I suspect some of them are figuring stuff out and others are just messing about. So that may be a context for his thoughts on choosing to be gay.

How is it ‘basic safeguarding’ to imply to an 11 yr old that it’s ok to have a ‘boyfriend’ that she fancies? Rather than point out that she’s a bit young for a relationship with that sort of label?

Is this the problem? Are adults too scared to tell kids they are too young for certain things in case they won’t be the ‘cool’ auntie any more?

In the post I answered, the term didn't come from a child. It came from an adult asking the child if that was their 'boyfriend'.

Quite a different thing from a precocious child using the term.

You cannot let go of this “sexual relationship” concept as clear by your mention of Mandy Smith.

If you think an underaged girl in a sexual relationship with an adult man is the same as an 11 year old girl innocently discussing an 11 year old boy she has a crush on, who she met at a school trip then….I don’t know what to say.

She is not too young to have a crush. She has one. There is nothing that can be done about.

She is also not too young to have a boyfriend within the specific childlike interpretation of what that means.

You need to let go of this obsession with sexual relationships. That’s why you are freaking out. You only understand that term in the context of adult relationships.

The same niece also told me she had had “flings” and rather than freak out as you would have done I asked her to explain explicitly what she and her friends mean by “fling”. (It was not a fling.)

I definitely wouldn't allow it at 11

Within the context of a child coming to them to discuss a boy they fancied.

Use “boy-you-fancy” if you prefer.

So how did 11 yr old Mandy know the difference?

And I’m not talking about an 11 yr old innocently discussing the boy she ‘fancies’ (your previous word) - I am talking about you discussing it with her and putting a label of ‘boyfriend’ on it that takes it a step further.

In my experience, 11 yr old girls don’t come out and say “I fancy so and so”. They might go as far as to say they ‘like’ someone but as I remember it was just squeals and nudges and their friends knew what they meant and would dare each other to go and tell the boy in question. I’m suspecting that ‘fancy’ is your word and boyfriend is definitely your word. Moving her further along the thought process with adult approval. Where is the boundary? Are we leaving it to the child to decide?

But that's not what the poster said 🤷‍♀️

They did as they were directly referencing me. They did nor say they spontaneously ask their 11 years if they are dating.

I cannot take you seriously if you think Mandy’s sexual relationship with an adult man is the same as an 11 year old discussing their age approporiate crush.

Although maybe if Mandy had a sensible aunt to talk to the aunt could have ascertained that what she was discussing was.

Stop obsessing over sexual relationships. Nobody is discussing sexual relationships.

You need to let that go.

And no “fancy” was not my word but if you want to make things up to argue against be my guest.

You seem fixated in only seeing “boyfriend / girlfriend” with an adult context which is your issue not mine.

No. They used the word 'boyfriend'

I mean, it's right there, for all to see.

Click on the quotes.

What does that make the word 'boyfriend' disappear?