was I unreasonable to refuse to go an aquarium on welfare grounds

[pppppppickupapenguin]

I’d organised a meet up with my NCT group at a coffee shop in central Birmingham just to have a chat and a drink later this week. After coming out of my baby sensory class, I checked my phone and saw that someone in the group had found 50% off tickets to the Sea Life Centre. Everyone else agreed and booked tickets to meet there instead. The problem is that I have welfare concerns with the penguin enclosure there. Penguins have such a huge range in the wild, but at Birmingham they’re stuck in a small enclosure with no natural light and it honestly upsets me.

So I said that I didn’t want to go to the aquarium because I didn’t like the way the penguins were kept there. If it were a new meet-up suggested I’d have just said I was busy, but I was the one who suggested the date for this so I couldn’t think of a white lie to get out of it after the venue change. There were a few replies saying that it must be fine or it wouldn’t be legal, and someone said they went last year and the penguins looked happy. The group went quiet after that and it feels awkward. I wasn’t trying to judge, but I couldn’t think of a reason why I wouldn’t be able to go other than I had a problem with it so just went with honesty and I’m not sure if I was unreasonable for saying it in the first place and how to smooth it over now.

I think it's fine to voice your views. I think I would have simply ended it by saying that while it's not something you agree with you hope they all have a good catch up and that you hope to see them all soon, and then state somewhere like soft play.
My NCT group didn't last long and different people did pair off. At the time I took it personally but I think these things happen, some people connect better (though actually the two that were never apart no longer seen to be friends either).

Soonenough well done you. Greyhound racing is frightful.my friend worked for Greyhound rescue charity. Really appalling what these poor dogs are put through.

I don’t think you’re unreasonable for the way you feel about it, but if you were bothered about maintaining these friendships then I wouldn’t have advised saying it the way you did. I’d have just made something up or said it’s not your thing.

I'll go against the grain and say I think you were right to express your reasons. You have integrity. There's a difference between being judging a person for who they are and criticising a choice they're making. The former is unhelpful, the latter is....part of how human society functions. If we never offended anyone, we would have no principles about anything.

“It must be fine or it would be illegal”

Oh, the sweet summer children they are…………

I completely understand.
When I was very little, our parents would take us to the zoo - and I remember the elephant in particular. She was beautiful. But she lived by herself, in a cage, on cement.
I was probably 5 or 6 the first time I remember seeing her, and then assisting my mum with her 6-yr-old summer school class when I was 17.
That elephant was still there, on the cement.
The zoo guy hit on me though - that was new.

Now they have a whole new safari park thing and have bought a lot of acreage - so none of the animals are kept in cement cages. Or so I hear - I have no desire to go back.

They feel judged and on some level they’ve judged you.
Just bail.
As a vegan of many decades now I have long since realised that you can’t go in with lines like that. You just need to let people get on with it. Yes you organised it, but you could’ve said something’s come up. It’s urgent. Have fun!
So I’ve voted YABU - unless you are actually a vegan and feel compelled to make the point, which I doubt so you’ll be judged by them as a hypocrite possibly but as you’ve said you don’t care about being judged. Most do.

I would say its not my thing, and leave it at that. But if ppl pushed I would be honest. After all every one is allowed to have a view point. If they make an issue of it that's on them!

Yorkshire Wildlife Park are on a mission to rescue a third set of lions. What do the anti zoo posters suggest that are done with them if they weren't rescued? Currently they are in Ukraine.

I feel the same as the OP about greyhound racing and horse racing and have declined attending these type of events. I just say I can't make it.

She was talking about one place! ????

I agree with you on this point - how rude that you originally suggested and organised the meet up for someone else to change the venue/activity and everyone buy tickets before knowing whether you were up for doing the new suggestion. They should feel bad for doing that, not you feeling bad because you expressed why you didn't want to go. I think they were really rude!

This.

You can’t go through life making up lies to avoid offending the fragile sensitivities of those with different values.

I’d have done the same OP. I have refused to join in on trips to the zoo, dog and horse racing, betting on the grand national etc because it goes against my beliefs. You haven’t said anything bad or judgemental, just explained why you won’t be attending so they shouldn’t feel judged. If they do feel judged, maybe they should think about what they’re doing more.

There were a few replies saying that it must be fine or it wouldn’t be legal, and someone said they went last year and the penguins looked happy.

I’m not sure I could be around people who are this dense though so I wouldn’t really worry about smoothing things over if they are being off with you. That’s me though, I’m probably older than you as my kids are grown and I have zero shits to give anymore.

I'm with you, @pppppppickupapenguin- I won't go to the Sea Life Centre in London because the penguins never see daylight. It's vile.

I also didn't go to one end-of-term party (I'm a teacher) because it was to horse-racing. Didn't make a big thing of it, but said I wouldn't go because of animal welfare concerns. The person in charge of organising never organised to go there again, so it was worth it.

I don’t understand why you should feel the need to lie, or be made to feel you’re out of line for having that opinion.

I have very mixed feelings on Zoos and aquariums. There’s one near us I absolutely will never give a penny to and if someone suggested going there’s if not hesitate say no thanks, witnessing pacing tigers and the most miserable looking bear slumped on a concrete block in their cages that are smaller than my house once was enough for me.

If anything, I’d imagine some of the others also feel the same way, or have conflicting feelings about it and don’t know how to respond.

The planet and everything on it is a system. Generally speaking, it's better not to mess with the system, and zoos are a completely unnecessary messing with the system.

Humans mess with the system by destroying animal habitats and animals themselves in the wild.

I agree except for the bit about criticising others as OP never did this. She stated why she wouldn’t go due to her own conscious.

I was once arranging a trip to the ballet and someone declined the invite as they thought the training and impact on ballerina’ bodies was cruel ( she has a point). I did not feel judged or resent her stating this. But it did make me think. Which is a good thing, to have your awareness expanded.

As for all those on this thread saying OP should not have lied. Would they all be happy if their husband’s mates were arranging a lads’ trip to a brothel and their husband lied as to why he could not make it instead of declining by saying he did not want to be unfaithful to his wife? Because they’d be a lot less shit behaviour from men if other men refused to participate in it by stating why.

I have refused to go to things like that before, but I also found it very hard to keep friends, especially groups of friends, in the past. You've marked yourself as an outsider and possibly made people feel judged/uncomfortable too. 20 something me would have told the truth, but 40 something me would make up another excuse.

Yanbu.
Those poor Sea Life penguins being stuck inside 24/7. The London sea life centre is as awful. I don't know how they get away with it. I was so shocked when we visited, I had no idea it was a thing.

The London zoo penguins have a great enclosure in the fresh air though.

I wouldn't worry about it, there will be other meet ups in the future that you'll feel happier about. You're not dependent on this group, there are other things in life.

Penguins absolutely STINK. YANBU

Exactly this. My father is the same. No zoos or aquariums. He sometimes has to field a fairly aggressive 'well are you vegetarian? Are you? Are you?' query but he just says 'this is my line'.

I've been to the Sea life centre and it's pretty awful IMO.

That was still happening at the Moscow State Circus in the early 2000s! We were there in 2007? Not only a bear but also monkeys riding bikes and various other animals that escapes my mind now.

oops-sorry- meant to quote a PP who said that you have a line and real friends would respect it. Not the stinky penguins post.