was I unreasonable to refuse to go an aquarium on welfare grounds

[pppppppickupapenguin]

I’d organised a meet up with my NCT group at a coffee shop in central Birmingham just to have a chat and a drink later this week. After coming out of my baby sensory class, I checked my phone and saw that someone in the group had found 50% off tickets to the Sea Life Centre. Everyone else agreed and booked tickets to meet there instead. The problem is that I have welfare concerns with the penguin enclosure there. Penguins have such a huge range in the wild, but at Birmingham they’re stuck in a small enclosure with no natural light and it honestly upsets me.

So I said that I didn’t want to go to the aquarium because I didn’t like the way the penguins were kept there. If it were a new meet-up suggested I’d have just said I was busy, but I was the one who suggested the date for this so I couldn’t think of a white lie to get out of it after the venue change. There were a few replies saying that it must be fine or it wouldn’t be legal, and someone said they went last year and the penguins looked happy. The group went quiet after that and it feels awkward. I wasn’t trying to judge, but I couldn’t think of a reason why I wouldn’t be able to go other than I had a problem with it so just went with honesty and I’m not sure if I was unreasonable for saying it in the first place and how to smooth it over now.

Yeah and look at the state of humans now. Probably because we are so far from where we used to be.

YA never BU to draw attention to animal welfare issues OP, even if it makes people feel a bit uncomfortable with their own choices.

If I were you, I'd be proud of myself for sticking to your guns. Hopefully you have made others in the group think twice before supporting this kind of thing.

If you want to stay friends with the group. You should have been more diplomatic.

A. Suggest other option that maybe cheaper or easier to get to, so all can attend. Then later, maybe mention your views.

B. Decline the invitation, with sorry not this time, Aquariums aren’t my thing. Later mention you views if you feel the need.

Etiquette and being polite/diplomatic is all about making others feel comfortable. It seems like you might have made others feel uncomfortable.

Good point!

YANBU. What's unreasonable is that person thinking he/she knows what happy looks like on a penguin. Was it dancing a little jig and whistling Walking on Sunshine FFS? What a silly comment that person made.

The penguins are suffering!

Two of the closest charities to my heart are small sanctuary near me to a huge one in an African country a friend of mine lives in which take takes wild animal kept as pets, poached, and trafficked animals. Both organisations have the primary aim of rehabilitation and releasing back to the wild where possible, and providing the best life possible for those it’s not an option for. Places like this aren’t breeding and the clear message is that these animals should be in the wild and while they are doing their best by the animals they have, captivity is an inferior substitute.

Sea Life Centre Birmingham are breeding gentoo chicks as an attraction to see the baby penguins, for the poor things to spend their life never seeing natural light or having any experience beyond the small tank they live in. I don’t know why you thought that I hadn’t done my research. I also didn’t fly off the handle, just said I didn’t want to go because of the penguins.

For the people saying the wild is a cruel place, yes it is, but it’s the place where wild animals have evolved to live and where they’re meant to be. Most animals have huge ranges, social behaviours, instinctive urges and senses which have evolved over millennia to suit their environment. People have reported that they see the penguins there engaging in stereotypic behaviour because they can’t do what they are meant to do. They’re meant to build nests from rocks, hunt in the ocean covering huge depths and distances, they live in massive colonies. Theres so much of the natural behaviour of a penguin that can’t be replicated at an aquarium in central Birmingham and that’s stressful to an animal.

I don’t think it’s controversial for the vast majority of people to say that some animals do well in captivity, and some don’t. Where that line is falls differently for everyone and personally these penguins are on the don’t side for me.

I tend to keep this kind of reason to myself or be very light hearted about not liking something as is a bit harsh to be judgmental about something that someone else has planned. Also, when it comes to animal welfare I’m a total hypocrite because I don’t like things like zoos but then I eat meat.

The logistical argument would have made sense because Sea Life in Birmingham is literally in the centre and the tickets were £14. There’s no way I could have been able to attend the meet-up based on cost and location but not the aquarium. With hindsight saying aquariums aren’t my thing would have been better. I feel a real need to explain myself, especially as I’d planned to meet them and felt I was dropping out.

I agree etiquette is important, but sometimes in a friendship if it’s more than surface level then at some point you need to share opinions rather than being on the fence the whole time. I don’t get uncomfortable with the mum in the group who gives her baby no UPF at all, while I’m happy for mine to have pouches and melty puffs because it’s her decision and not a judgement on me. If they are happy that the aquarium is totally fine, then me saying I don’t like penguin exhibit shouldn’t bother them. And also on etiquette, surely the it’s worse to change a meet-up from a coffee shop to an aquarium and go ahead and book tickets while the organiser hasn’t even replied (probably 90 minutes from first message to when I picked up my phone again).

None of my friendship group would visit this place either for the same reasons as you. Animals in captivity like that is disgusting. It's often the case that the only thing you have in common with NCT friends is having had a baby at the same time.

you were not unreasonable to state why. You didn't berate them for choosing to go, you didn't launch into a tirade, you didn't use overly emotional language like I just did above, you simply stated your valid opinion and reason why you're declining. I think it's ridiculous that PPs find that offensive. I think they find it offensive because they know it's true but don't like the inconvenience the statement brings.

@FanofLeaves you have made me rethink about Pets at Home, too. You're right - they do have rabbits in plastic boxes the other side of the dog stuff. 😡

Good for you OP. I would have done exactly the same.i don't go to aquariums, zoos, circuses or theme parks with animals. As you say, they are a poor substitute for their natural home. Maybe the other mums will stop and think about this.

Its fair enough if that's what you think op but you risk not making friends with some of the group. It sounds like you're a cat who thinks for itself though so that's probably fine with you.

Why should OP lie when others can just respect her decision to not go. She didn’t ask them not to go.

I don’t think you were at all unreasonable OP. I absolutely agree with you. Animals for entertainment is just not something I can get on board with.

My views on it aside, you are always entitled to your own opinion & actions anyway. I found that some of my ‘mum friends’ and I naturally drifted once we realised we have different core views and the only common ground was having a child.

I think “it’s not for me “ was all that was needed

It’s fine to not want to go but if you don’t want to alienate these friends you need to be aware of how you come across. It may be unintentional but it comes across as judgy. Like you are a bit better than them (particularly given it was a done deal by then) Assuming you want to continue the friendship group I’d message something general maybe ask for a bit of advice about something to get the chat moving again. Then arrange another meet up.
Going forward I’d just be a bit more tactful so in this instance you could have said “sorry, not really our thing but have a lovely time and we will come to the next meet up”

I do agree given you had organised the meet up it was rude of someone to change the plan without consulting you.

Hopefully you’ve given them some food for thought.

I think I felt I needed more of a reason than this since there was no logistical reason I couldn’t attend. We were due to meet at that time and a walk away from there anyway. If it was new meet-up I’d have just avoided, but for what felt like dropping out I felt a need to explain why. Seems like vagueness might have been better.

YANBU.
I won’t eat foie gras EVER. People think I’m judgey. I am a bit; it’s barbaric and a line for me!
Stick to your guns. Next time you meet up if anyone says anything; explain why you feel as you do. Maybe it will open their eyes a bit to the truth and you might inspire someone else to say no next time if they feel as you do!
You can still be friends with people and hold a moral standard you believe in; ignore the awkwardness.

I think it was quite rude of them to change the plans before they had heard back from you anyway. It's not like you ignored then for several days. If they completely change the plans like that without waiting to hear from everybody, then they risk someone dropping out and should have thought of that first. They clearly couldn't be bothered to wait to hear if you wanted to switch to the new plan.

I think you just need to assume you'll never see these people again.

So I assume we’re talking about the Trafford centre here? Can’t you just meet up with them afterwards for a coffee? You can just potter round while they’re inside

How did they know the penguins were happy? Assuming they were not tap dancing, that is an odd comment .