Friend shouted at my 2 year old

[hmm01]

So I popped in to see my friend of 15 years today (we’re 30s now) with my 2 year old.

We were chatting and my 2yo was throwing a ball for her dog, then came to sit on my lap and was laughing and over excited about the dog and pulled my hair. This happens very rarely, slapping, biting or pulling hair when over excited and silly.

Before I had a chance to deal with it, my friend shouted so loud that it made me jump and my child burst into tears. She shouted “DO NOT TOUCH YOUR MUM LIKE THAT” she then went on a rant about how I need to do it back or they’ll keep doing it. We are not a shouty house, we don’t scream and shout at our child ever. We have a calm house so said child isn’t used to this. We explain why they are not to do it, show them how to touch gently and then we say “what do you say” and then we get a sorry and a cuddle and then move on from it. I think I was in shock that she shouted so loud at my child.

She has 3 older kids in their teens and to put it as bluntly but nicely as I can, they’ve all suffered as a result of her verbal abuse and I’ve seen her smack them (not hard but I had no children and I didn’t realise the impact in my early 20s) when they were younger and now she doesn’t have a nice relationship with any of them. They spend all their time in their bedrooms and she recently told me she booked a holiday with them and none of them want to go, they want to go and see their Dad for a couple of weeks instead while she goes alone.

I spent a lot of years helping her with them when their Dad left, I was there every morning to help get them ready for school, breakfast etc I did pick ups when I could, had them stay at mine for weeks during holidays so she could get a break and now I feel really angry that she spoke to my child like that. She isn’t their parent. I said “I’m going to shoot” straight after that and left and now I wish I’d of laid into her a little bit and told her to keep her nose out, it’s my child and I’ll speak to them how I see fit and I’m certainly not pulling their hair, biting or smacking them EVER.

How do I navigate this? I am also heavily pregnant and willing to be told that I’m upset over nothing here, my emotions are all over the place recently!

It’s a non event why are you asking on here? Bonkers. Thanks for stipulating it’s a chocolate ice cream that she normally gets rather than vanilla or something else, I’d have been worried about that 🙄🙄

People on mumsnet are so weird whenever they get a whiff of what might be gentle parenting.

I'm not a saint. I've shouted at my child when they've pulled my hair. I'm not particularly proud of it as I'd lost my rag with them and it didn't achieve anything. I think it's fine for children to know they've crossed a line and people will react to it but you should, ideally, be able to do this without screaming at them.

I'd never in a million years think it was OK to randomly yell at a friend's two year old. If someone did that to my child they would not be getting invited back. If I did this to any of my friends toddlers they'd be horrified! It wouldn't matter if I agreed with their parenting or not. It's just not socially acceptable. Say in an extreme case they were hurting my child and the parent wasn't intervening (not happening in this OP) we'd just leave.

It sounds like your friend is in the midst of parenting a teenager (or 2? 3?) who is depressed. It's really hard going.
Something's not right to me about you going to visit a friend in this incredibly difficult situation, and disappointed with yourself that, on top of all that, you didn't take the opportunity to lay into her and deliver a few home truths about what a shite mother she is.
I think for your friend's sake you should give her a bit of space while you concentrate on your own young family. You don't seem to be able to offer her the support she needs, and she is going to be drowning in the diapproval and assumptions of all the other hundreds of super mums around that she is the sole, direct cause of her child's depression.

I'm in two minds. We've lost that "it takes a village" attitude. Only 3 decades ago, neighbours and friends would smack neighbours and friends children if they were misbehaving, and with parents, and society's full approval. Same neighbours and friends would also shout, - or tell off -, at any rate, neighbours and friends children. Also with the parents permission.

Now, we've got to a point were society is so isolationist that neighbours and friends in the village can't even tell off a neighbourhood child and if they do the parent gets all indignant and irate. We've lost our way as a society. We really have. I do not believe in this 'gentle parenting' and no shouting trend. Evidence in the way teens are now, shows 'gentle parenting' (or neglectful parenting as I call it) is now showing it does far more harm than good. We need to get back to parents being parents and not 'friends' of their child, and firm discipline and the village raising the child.

However, she sounds like she went way overboard with the heavy shouting, and I would have a word with her on that. Shouting to the extent that she reduces her to tears is not on. But I also don't think her having bad relationships with her children is evidence that firm discipline is wrong. I think the two are incidental and not proof of anything. You can be a 'gentle' parent and still not be close with your children. Most of my friends in my generation who had firm disciplinarians as parents are now as adults really close to our parents. I think your friend has a personality flaw and other things going on with her parenting other than her kids not speaking to her just because she shouts. I don't think you can connect the two just because you're upset she shouted at your child and are perhaps trying to justify it in your mind that you're the better parent.

Don’t listen to these abuse apologists, OP. Research shows that shouting regularly negatively affects children, even pets. Your friend is an abusive bitch who had no right to discipline YOUR child. End this friendship; she sucks.

“Finally someone who gets it”

what you mean is

“Finally someone who agrees with me”

very different

On the plus side I bet your kid won't hit or pull hair infront of her again. Sometimes kids need a short sharp shock. Not this pandering gentle hands crap

This thread is nuts. I don’t know anyone who would yell at someone’s else’s 2yo for something so minor when the parent was right there. 2yo pulls parent’s hair whilst on lap is hardly a drama is it. Young children get over stimulated, especially at others’ houses, it happens. no need for the big reaction. In fact, it can be counter productive, making it into such a big deal.

For what it’s worth, I don’t rate the ‘gentle hands’ approach either. Children (people, even!) don’t always mean to be gentle, so it’s just odd to pretend that they did. Why not just put the child down and say you don’t like having your hair pulled.
Notice they are over stimulated and perhaps take them home.

It sounds like a strange overreaction. Like a pp, I think it sounds like it triggered her somehow. I’d probably take this approach with the friend, tell her she overreacted, ask if she was ok and (if you feel necessary) let her know you can handle these things yourself.

You sound like a crap friend. I wouldn’t want to be friends with someone so judgey. Poor friend. You need to parent your child. Can imagine you’ll have a lot of issues in the future.

Funny you’re calling the friend an “abusive bitch” whilst being abusive yourself.

I’d have to say something either via message or in person. I’d just say “ with regards to you telling dd off at our last visit I just wanted to say, we parent differently I’m sure you wouldn’t have appreciated me getting involved in your parenting and I expect the same. I don’t need you to discipline my child I will do so as needed. Please don’t shout at her again”

Either she will respect your boundaries or kick off but at least you know where you stand.

But you say your child bites, slaps and pulls your hair when over excited, so your method isn't working if it's still happening regardless is it?

Oh dear, your dd is going to come across shouty people OP. There’s a pupil in my class who has come from a gentle parenting home and cries often if teachers have to raise their voice, even though it’s not aimed at him.

Oh right? Interested to hear your strategies for making a teenager do something they've decided not to, especially if it never involves any raised voices

Your friend does not sound like a great parent and maybe had damaged relationships with her children. She might also be a much better parent than you have given her credit for on here with strong relationships with her children.

However imo, she has been parenting for a lot longer than you and you sound like you already think you’re an expert on parenting despite having only done it for a couple of years. Say one of your kids becomes a school refusing teen..you say this will be non negotiable but I doubt it will be a problem solved by gentle parenting with a cuddle at the end.

She was wrong to shout at your child, your parenting of your toddler sounds fine but your OP sounded like you wanted loads of pats on the back for what a top parent you are and like you wanted to put the boot into her for her parenting style. Come back in 15 years OP, with all the answers.

“We are not a shouty house, we don’t scream and shout at our child ever.”

That might change during the bloody awful teenage years 😂

Toddlers are the easy bit.🙄

Nope

You don't shout at my child

That's not precious it's protection, shouting at a toddler is nuts! Especially if you're not even their parent.

Op don't lay into her but explain to her why you're ending the friendship. You can't have your child around a violent and abusive bully.

Well she seems to have normalised a 2 year old slapping her, biting her and pulling her hair. 'what do we say?' clearly isn't working as a strategy there. Maybe if OP had been a bit firmer vocally with her own child she wouldn't have a 2 year old biting her, pulling her hair and slapping her.

You look down on her and appear not to like her very much and now she has done something you consider abusive to your child.

You won't change her, and I doubt you will change your views, so there's not much to navigate surely, just move on and don't hang out with her anymore.

I think that you're way too soft in your parenting, although this is very little information to know if your daughter is spoilt or not. Any kid can randomly act out.

Your friend is totally opposite, too harsh in my opinion. If be somewhere in the middle. Sometimes people can tell without being abusive, you're traumatised by your upbringing that you're saying any type of shouts is abusive. If your baby is doing something against their own safety, wouldn't you tell at them to stop?

However, I wouldn't allow anyone besides DH and baby's care takers to yell or discipline my kid. She crossed a line and I'd have a serious conversation with her. If she does it again, deal-breaker.

There’s a middle ground somewhere here. I wouldn’t shout at my child (especially not at that age) but I’d eyeroll if I saw anyone trying to give some extended explanation as to why biting and pulling hair his wrong.

The child won’t get what you’re on about, you’re giving them a ted talk for no reason.

2 yr olds will occasionally lash out because it's developmentally normal.

How would you deal with with it?

OP it sounds like your gentle parenting is not working if you allow your child to hurt you with no consequences. I dread to think how the next generation will turn out with this gentle parenting phenomenon. Allowing a child to behave poorly with no discipline or consequences and teaching them they are centre of the universe does not build resilience.

I had a friend's child of a similar age pull a chunk of my hair out after grabbing it and not letting go. It was agony and the child was given no consequences, just namby pamby "gentle hands", "that's unkind" etc.

Why? I'm quite strict but I try not to shout. Certainly not at a 2 year old. She could have told him firmly "Do not hurt your mother." When it's another person than the parent telling them off they tend to listen more so no need to scare them.