Friend shouted at my 2 year old

[hmm01]

So I popped in to see my friend of 15 years today (we’re 30s now) with my 2 year old.

We were chatting and my 2yo was throwing a ball for her dog, then came to sit on my lap and was laughing and over excited about the dog and pulled my hair. This happens very rarely, slapping, biting or pulling hair when over excited and silly.

Before I had a chance to deal with it, my friend shouted so loud that it made me jump and my child burst into tears. She shouted “DO NOT TOUCH YOUR MUM LIKE THAT” she then went on a rant about how I need to do it back or they’ll keep doing it. We are not a shouty house, we don’t scream and shout at our child ever. We have a calm house so said child isn’t used to this. We explain why they are not to do it, show them how to touch gently and then we say “what do you say” and then we get a sorry and a cuddle and then move on from it. I think I was in shock that she shouted so loud at my child.

She has 3 older kids in their teens and to put it as bluntly but nicely as I can, they’ve all suffered as a result of her verbal abuse and I’ve seen her smack them (not hard but I had no children and I didn’t realise the impact in my early 20s) when they were younger and now she doesn’t have a nice relationship with any of them. They spend all their time in their bedrooms and she recently told me she booked a holiday with them and none of them want to go, they want to go and see their Dad for a couple of weeks instead while she goes alone.

I spent a lot of years helping her with them when their Dad left, I was there every morning to help get them ready for school, breakfast etc I did pick ups when I could, had them stay at mine for weeks during holidays so she could get a break and now I feel really angry that she spoke to my child like that. She isn’t their parent. I said “I’m going to shoot” straight after that and left and now I wish I’d of laid into her a little bit and told her to keep her nose out, it’s my child and I’ll speak to them how I see fit and I’m certainly not pulling their hair, biting or smacking them EVER.

How do I navigate this? I am also heavily pregnant and willing to be told that I’m upset over nothing here, my emotions are all over the place recently!

Shouting that's ranting and raving, someone losing control, getting personal is abusive.

The odd, sharp, controlled, raised or stern voice / shout in extremis "No, you do NOT pinch your sister. Go in the other room NOW" - nothing wrong with it. More effective than the feeble plea for gentle hands.

I had to do the latter so rarely, when I did, it really was a shock and DC knew they had overstepped the line.

I can't imagine shouting at someone else's toddler when the parent is sat right there. If toddler had pulled friend's hair when you were out the room it would make sense but I still wouldn't like it. You have to choose between a)say something b) ignore and it carry on as before c) pull back from friendship.

I'd personally go for saying something like "friend, the reason I left so quickly was because you shouted at x. I was so shocked my reaction was to leave, but I think really we ought to talk about it. We probably have different parenting styles and for the most part that doesn't matter have much impact as our kids at at different stages. That was the first time x has been shouted at though, and it scared them. For me after my past, a non-shouty household is a deal-breaker and would really appreciate your support and participation with that even if it's not the way you'd choose to do things."

God these responses!

Dear OP please keep being the fabulous parent that you are for your two year old! Ignore these weird posts that bend over backwards to find fault with you and praise shouting and abusive parenting techniques that they would never accept if they were doled out to horses or dogs. Its a weird feature of mumsnet contrarianism that if an early poster attacks you and finds fault with you a swarm of bitchery will follow. Just ignore them. Your friend was bang out if order.

Please see below, it actually is normal.

I don’t think shouting at her will help her regulate her emotions somehow.

If she’s your best friend I definitely don’t think you should “lay into her a little bit and tell her to keep her nose out” for telling your child not to pull your hair. That sounds super confrontational and like you want to start an argument with her. She was trying to stand up for you so it was likely well intentioned.

I suspect it’s triggered you because of your own family background. Your friend may have her own triggers. I personally think it’s probably all a bit of a storm in a teacup but none of us were there!

If it’s bothering you then I think it would totally be ok to say that you appreciate she was just looking out for you but you’d rather discipline your own children in future without her getting involved when you are right there, and you definitely don’t want her to shout at them. I agree with you I personally don’t hold with the “doing it back” to them, I think it’s generally unnecessary and cruel.

I definitely don’t think having grumpy teenagers who hide in their rooms and don’t want to go on family holidays is a valid criticism of any parenting style. That’s just having teenagers

Couldn't agree more.

Or people simply have different opinions.

I responded to OP and then read the comments which is what I usually do unless it's a super long thread and even then, I might just read OP's comments.

Not normal because it's written somewhere that it is; and I didn't say you must shout.

Thank you! Finally, somebody who gets it.

Just because we are not a shouty house does not mean that we don’t have rules, consequences and boundaries. We simply don’t feel the need to shout to be in control or have the upper hand.

She doesn’t walk all over us, she’s 2 fgs. We are firm, we will tell her a sharp short “No” if needs be, we remove things from her if they are being thrown about and we’ve told her to stop, we follow through with consequences for example she threw one of her play buckets full of water out the bath and up our bathroom wall the other day, I told her no and she did it again so I took all the buckets out of the bath. Did she whinge and cry for them back? Yes absolutely but I wasn’t going to give them back at all.

Not shouting doesn’t mean you are a pushover and I wish people could see what harm is does to a child because I’ve been there.

Andddd we found the drip feed.

Good luck @hmm01 I sincerely hope that you have all the answers in 12 or so years.

Okay please see NHS page…

She has just turned 2, she’s not 7 or 8.

Ignore these stupid replies OP.
Regardless of yours or her parenting style it is NEVER her place to discipline your child. What the fuck. No thanks I’ll handle it. Don’t undermine me.
Nothing to do with being precious. It’s inappropriate and not her place.

I would let it go. No harm was done. Your child was not affected in any way. It's a bit of a non event tbh.

I’ve never once said I will have all the answers, I am not perfect, I never will be but I can use my childhood as a way to NOT navigate parenting now that I am one myself because I know the harm it does, I’ve lived it and I’m still living the trauma now.

Okie dokie

Fucksake, people are being mental. We're not a shouty household either. The odd time when DH shouts at the kids I fucking hate it - probably because I grew up in a shouty household and it was bloody awful. The odd occasion I shout, because they've hurt me and I lose it, I apologise and say I was wrong.
I have a 2 year old - if my friend did this I'd be appalled.

Two's absolutely tiny. Shouting at a two year old is pointless. They are still exploring the world in a very sensory way, they're very easily distracted and are only just starting to grasp the idea of rules. My kid and her friends were all raised on a "kind hands" approach and they're seven now and it has really worked. They are very careful around each other and don't see trying to hurt each other as a form of play. You parent the way you want to, OP. There is a lot of evidence-based info out there about how children think and learn and it's a real shame how many adults just brush all that off with "oh it's so annoying watching that kind hands crap", as if it's not annoying watching adults scream at children who are far too young to understand what the adult thinks they have done wrong.

You both clearly disapprove of each other's parenting styles.

Each to their own. A shout isn't going to do any lasting damage; git child will have forgotten by the next day.

The friend advised her to pull her son’ hair in retaliation!! That isn’t on.

If your dd had pulled her hair then fair enough - dd needs to learn that people are different and if you interfere with different people, expect different reactions. Since she was pulling your hair, it was your situation to deal with IMO.

This.

@hmm01 can you come back here when your youngest child is 14 please, and tell us that you were right, because I think that by then you might have a very different viewpoint.

So when you were helping your best friend with her children to get them ready for school in the morning, and to have them for weeks over the holidays, did you honestly never tell them off or disciplin them in any way? If you are honest, and admit that you did have to do that on occassions, is it possible that your best friend thought that you were both close enough to each other, that is was ok to each tell the other's child off? It appears that you still think that it is ok for you to tell her how she should be parenting her children, but not the other way around?

"if that was my teenager, they would be going to school and showering. She knows this and I've said it to her face."

Apart from what appears to be a horrible double standard on your part, how exactly would you gently get her teenagers to shower and go to school - I assume you meant her children to shower before going to school, and not actually at school?

I think that it would be better for your "best friend" to thank you very much for all the help you insisted on giving her in the past, but to add that it seems your joint friendship has run it's course now, but that her door might be open to you in the future if you ever find yourself living in the real world. I don't believe in hitting children either, but I also think that in the future, during the seriousness of a situation, you might actually find yourself shouting at your own child - sadly there isn't always time to explain something to them gently.

You're contradicting yourself. You don't think she's a bad mum but as she is emotionally abusive that's the definition of being a bad mum!
"“Shouty homes are not abusive” they actually are, emotionally abusive."

I agree your friend was out of order but you’re in for a huuuuuuge surprise believing you can parent a child these days without ever shouting! It really takes me back to when I first had mine and declared there’d be “no toys that make noise, they’ll all be wooden” Ha! As if you get a choice in the matter as they get to pre-school age! So naive

Absolutely this!

I'd be the first to roll my eyes at gentle parenting but what you've described is just common sense. We're not a shouty house either- I don't think many are, cos it's a shit way to be as a family.