Friend shouted at my 2 year old

[hmm01]

So I popped in to see my friend of 15 years today (we’re 30s now) with my 2 year old.

We were chatting and my 2yo was throwing a ball for her dog, then came to sit on my lap and was laughing and over excited about the dog and pulled my hair. This happens very rarely, slapping, biting or pulling hair when over excited and silly.

Before I had a chance to deal with it, my friend shouted so loud that it made me jump and my child burst into tears. She shouted “DO NOT TOUCH YOUR MUM LIKE THAT” she then went on a rant about how I need to do it back or they’ll keep doing it. We are not a shouty house, we don’t scream and shout at our child ever. We have a calm house so said child isn’t used to this. We explain why they are not to do it, show them how to touch gently and then we say “what do you say” and then we get a sorry and a cuddle and then move on from it. I think I was in shock that she shouted so loud at my child.

She has 3 older kids in their teens and to put it as bluntly but nicely as I can, they’ve all suffered as a result of her verbal abuse and I’ve seen her smack them (not hard but I had no children and I didn’t realise the impact in my early 20s) when they were younger and now she doesn’t have a nice relationship with any of them. They spend all their time in their bedrooms and she recently told me she booked a holiday with them and none of them want to go, they want to go and see their Dad for a couple of weeks instead while she goes alone.

I spent a lot of years helping her with them when their Dad left, I was there every morning to help get them ready for school, breakfast etc I did pick ups when I could, had them stay at mine for weeks during holidays so she could get a break and now I feel really angry that she spoke to my child like that. She isn’t their parent. I said “I’m going to shoot” straight after that and left and now I wish I’d of laid into her a little bit and told her to keep her nose out, it’s my child and I’ll speak to them how I see fit and I’m certainly not pulling their hair, biting or smacking them EVER.

How do I navigate this? I am also heavily pregnant and willing to be told that I’m upset over nothing here, my emotions are all over the place recently!

YANBU @hmm01, we had similar rules in our house; we're not a hitting family, and we're not a shouting family. It worked well for us, there is only one occasion when I've shouted at either of my DDs, and it was because she was doing something dangerous. Our DDs are now 16 and 18 and perfectly lovely, well behaved, non-shouty young ladies!

I would probably talk to your friend and just tell her you didn't like her shouting at your DD, and while you've been happy to follow her parenting style when caring for her children, you would ask her to respect your parenting style in relation to your own DC. Which means no shouting.

Mine weren't allowed toy guns, so finger guns and sticks became their toys of choice when playing goodies and baddies - they were at least junior school ages before they picked up on those games. I didn't buy them drums either - for selfish reasons (to protect my ears and headaches!). They found out what lovely sounds saucepans make when hit with wooden spoons, then with metal spoons, the metal spoons were swiftly hidden out of sight, and that was before school was even on the horizon... 😂

I absolutely agree this was out of order OP. I'm really (not?) surprised at these comments you're getting. When I read your post I thought 'well this is a no brainer surely? Someone else shouting at your kid? Stepping in when the parent is right there and dealing with it? Haven't we moved out of the stone age and using shouting as a tool to get kids to do what we want?'

But it seems... no.

The first comment saying you were being precious raised my eyebrow - the subsequent pile on has really surprised me.

Hmmm. I agree with you that shouting at children is almost always inappropriate (the only exception would be for a moment of danger when shouting may be necessary). I can't stand it when someone says proudly, "I'm a shouty mum." Shouting can indeed be extremely emotionally abusive. I can understand it happens when parents get to the end of their tender, but it's not something that should be shrugged off or defended IMO.

Your friend shouldn't have shouted at your child. Having said that, I would also add that you seem very critical of your friend as a mother. Maybe that is because you are angry with her at the moment. But you seem to feel you are a superior parent. I would say that as the parent of a just turned 2-year-old, there is a great deal that you have yet to experience. It's all very well to say that you would insist on your teenager going to school and showering. But until you've actually dealt with a school refusing child who may well be experiencing depression, you can't really claim that you would succeed where you think your friend has failed.

I'd also say it's important to draw some clear lines WRT hitting, pulling hair, etc. It's certainly a developmental stage for some children, but it still needs to be handled firmly IMO.

But the OP obviously wasn't, and isn't, happy to follow her best friend's parenting style, or she would not have "... told her to her face" that she was not parenting her teenagers correctly!! Like I said before, that seems very much like double standards to me.

I agree with most other posters here. So she shouldn’t have shouted at your DC but you do seem to think your parenting style is superior. You can claim that biting and hitting is normal but that doesn’t mean you ignore it. How else is your child going to realise it’s wrong if you’re calmly saying ‘oh we don’t hit, gentle hands etc’? Your response should be proportionate to the action as should your tone of voice. Hitting and biting needs to be nipped in the bud ASAP so I see why your friend intervened. As for the behaviour of her teenagers, that’s pretty standard and I can guarantee yours will be the same!

Did she shout? Or did she use a firm authoritative voice? The former not ideal. The latter is essential in good parenting. Sometimes using a firm voice will make a child cry as it makes them listen and can be a surprise. Especially if they are not used to it. You need to use it when children are misbehaving and not listening, they are unsafe, they are being violent etc It brings them up short and immediately stops poor behaviour. If you want to discuss it later you can.

Shouting is different, it’s loud, scary and usually ineffective. Careful you are not perceiving authoritiveness as shouting because of your experience in childhood.

Your daughter was being violent, so that would be the time for an authoritative voice. I personally wouldn’t have stepped in as she was being violent to you and I’d have let you handle it, but if your child was pulling my hair, or my child’s, or you weren’t there I would speak to her authoritatively. When she’s at school teachers will also do this.

Gentle parenting is fine, permissive parenting is not. Over explaining to children is also often far from helpful. Especially a 2 year old who has limited understanding. Your friend sounds like she may be shouty and authoritarian (don’t confuse that with authoritative), but don’t fear becoming that so much you become permissive.

I do want to teach her that we only ever use our hands on somebody to be kind (a hug, high five etc)

But she is using her hands to slap and pull hair, not to be kind.
No one is asking you to use hands to hit your dd. But your approach of talking gently explaining her has not stopped her from biting, slapping, pulling hair. You can discipline her without using hands but be firm with your voice that it is not acceptable.

She crossed a boundary, she shouldn't have shouted at your child.

But you are also incredibly critical towards someone you claim is a friend.

You clearly think you are a superior parent but your child is 2. You are only just starting to get into the trickier phase of disciplining.

If you think she abused her children, how can you still be her friend?

I agree your friend shouldn’t have shouted at your child but perhaps it was the final straw( in your friends eyes) because she believes you let your DD call the shots
Your post is full of contradictions actually
saying iits normal for a 2 year old to hit( and so is biting scratching clonking a pal with a wooden toy all that stuff) BUT you firmly stop them, by pulling them away if necessary otherwise they do not learn
kids need telling in that moment
Short, sharp, shock( verbal) is necessary sometimes.
You then you have good insight into teenage behaviour( not going to school, not washing, staying in their rooms) Absolutely normal( I’ve had 3)
So How did you communicate effectively with the teenagers? You could write a bestseller with your tips!

OP she triggered your mummy bear instinct! It happens.

However whats not ok is your jump to basically call her a lesser parent than you. Yes you helped her in school holidays and at breakfast times, but she's raising 3 kids alone and you're raising 1 with help.

Yes possibly she might have damaged her relationship by shouting, but i think its more likely to be a combination of factors if indeed, the relationship is damaged and this isnt typical teen laziness. I think you are projecting your abusive childhood onto her situation.

Also I think you might get bought right down to earth with this whole "gentle hands" thing. Yes that's the ideal way to do it, of course. You explain and they listen and you skip off under a rainbow. However i firmly believe not every child is wired to listen and take this on board. Your parenting style isnt a 1 size to fit all playbook. Maybe when you give birth to DC2 they might be the crazy second child and you might find yourself a little more inclined to shouting.

My mum had a calm voice and a stern voice, but /both voices were about the same pitch.
I knew when she meant business.
Mum was a teacher - and she had a classroom voice and a playground voice.
And woe be it to any of those little kids if she caught them being naughty on the playground.
That was the scariest voice I ever heard in my entire life.
I never heard that playground voice at home, even one time - ever.
And now I miss my mum.

YANBU to expect your friend not to discipline your child, but you are being very judgy.

It’s easy to have never shouted at your child when they’re a cute two year old. I’m not saying shouting is a good or effective way to parent, but it happens and it sound like your friend had a lot on her plate raising her kids.

i always used to judge my SIL for being too shouty but actually do you know what her kids are brilliantly behaved and also have a really close bond with her. On the other hand, I was definitely too gentle with my eldest and paid for it after.

My toddler is a biter and my mother in law suggested hitting back - apparently it worked for one of hers. I could never, never do it but I don’t mind her suggesting it. Different people parent differently.

If you clash that much in parenting styles that it makes you uncomfortable, just see her without your dd next time.

Maybe it's given your DD a shock and she won't bite or pull hair again. Often someone other than a parent disciplining kids has more impact.

We are not a shouty house at all . And I have lovely teens who have never been in trouble and dont need me to shout at them.
Positive reinforcement has always been our plan.
My sil shouts at everything at every chance . Her kids shy away from her and avoid talking to her as much as possible.
Same with my sister. Her kids come to my house to tell me what problems they are having . Because they dont want to get shouted at or have a parent turn to anger . Loads of parents opt for anger before anything. And it is a very negative atmosphere.
And before anyone says no i do not think I am a perfect parent at all. I just dont think shouting and screaming to get a point across works .

You sound very judgy of your friend. Of COURSE it's easy to feel superior where you have a cute cuddly two year old and she has teenager monsters. The fact that they're always in their room and don't want to go on a family holiday is probably more to do with their age than anything she's done wrong. Let's see if you're so smug where you PFB is a teen 🤦‍♀️

Thank you! 😅

Your little one is going through a phase as she learns to work through her emotions .. normal stuff !
Your friend is a miserable bag.

This is a weird set of replies. I think ‘gentle parents’ are often just unable to parent and doing their kids a huge wrong, but the ops parenting sounds fine to me. I don’t shout at my 2yo if she tugs my hair, and I shout much more than I’d like!
op, I think you should text her and say I’m sorry I left abruptly, but I was just really taken aback by your shouting at my 2yo for something like that. I’m not ok with that and I’m afraid we just can’t hang out with kids anymore if you can’t manage that.

I shouted more than I’d liked to when the kids were little. I tried not to. But I’d never have shouted at a toddler for pulling my hair! This thread is mad!

This . All that gentle parenting rubbish .

Ha! Tell me you've never parented a teenager without telling me you've never parented a teenager

my kids are now in their 20s but we also we are also a house that didn't shout. I don't shout at the kids they never shouted at me, they never slam doors etc. they never told me they hated me.
They were not perfect, obviously but it's just not the way we did it

No shouting in my household, as I grew up in a home where shouting and arguing was the norm, and it’s left me scarred, many years on. My kids (21 and 17) are very well behaved and certainly have boundaries. None would ever be rude to me like many teens, I put that boundary in place long before the teen years. Just because someone doesn’t want to shout, doesn’t make them a parent who has zero boundaries. Everyone compliments my kids behaviour, attitude as they really are lovely kids and work exceptionally hard academically. I do think a lot of that is down to raising them in a gentle, non shouty way. That doesn’t mean they weren’t reprimanded, or taught good values. Many posters here seem to think if a parent isn’t shouting then they have no boundaries. Totally not true.

Next time OP i’d be saying please don’t shout at my child. She has no right to do that, she could have easily said that’s not nice, say sorry to mummy if she felt she had to comment. But really she should have left the parenting to you. Really normal for toddlers to do that, mine certainly did a lot of hair pulling in the first couple of years.

I have a 20yr old and a 17yr old and I say the same as OP. Going to school is non negotiable in my house. As is basic personal hygiene.