Friend shouted at my 2 year old

[hmm01]

So I popped in to see my friend of 15 years today (we’re 30s now) with my 2 year old.

We were chatting and my 2yo was throwing a ball for her dog, then came to sit on my lap and was laughing and over excited about the dog and pulled my hair. This happens very rarely, slapping, biting or pulling hair when over excited and silly.

Before I had a chance to deal with it, my friend shouted so loud that it made me jump and my child burst into tears. She shouted “DO NOT TOUCH YOUR MUM LIKE THAT” she then went on a rant about how I need to do it back or they’ll keep doing it. We are not a shouty house, we don’t scream and shout at our child ever. We have a calm house so said child isn’t used to this. We explain why they are not to do it, show them how to touch gently and then we say “what do you say” and then we get a sorry and a cuddle and then move on from it. I think I was in shock that she shouted so loud at my child.

She has 3 older kids in their teens and to put it as bluntly but nicely as I can, they’ve all suffered as a result of her verbal abuse and I’ve seen her smack them (not hard but I had no children and I didn’t realise the impact in my early 20s) when they were younger and now she doesn’t have a nice relationship with any of them. They spend all their time in their bedrooms and she recently told me she booked a holiday with them and none of them want to go, they want to go and see their Dad for a couple of weeks instead while she goes alone.

I spent a lot of years helping her with them when their Dad left, I was there every morning to help get them ready for school, breakfast etc I did pick ups when I could, had them stay at mine for weeks during holidays so she could get a break and now I feel really angry that she spoke to my child like that. She isn’t their parent. I said “I’m going to shoot” straight after that and left and now I wish I’d of laid into her a little bit and told her to keep her nose out, it’s my child and I’ll speak to them how I see fit and I’m certainly not pulling their hair, biting or smacking them EVER.

How do I navigate this? I am also heavily pregnant and willing to be told that I’m upset over nothing here, my emotions are all over the place recently!

I think it’s normal for people to shout in excitement or joy, it’s not aggressive. You know children can tell the difference between a shouted threat/aggression and an excited “we’re going on holiday tomorrow!” shout right? Don’t be silly.

Thank you!

I would have just picked him up and removed him 😆

I'm though the toddler years now, and gentle parenting wasn't a thing when I had very young children (but then neither was instagram) but is this really what it is? Overwhelming a toddler by giving them lengthy verbal explanations they can't possibly comprehend? How on earth is that supposed to help a toddler understand what the rules are? All you're doing is putting responsibility for everything on to the child, and that doesn't help them either.

I do have rock solid boundaries! Just because I don’t shout doesn’t mean that I don’t have a firm “no” voice and a look that says I mean it. We follow through with consequences like removing toys if she throws them and we don’t back down when she cries or whinges, she knows that this is the result of her choosing to ignore me or her Dad telling her to stop or “no”. She’s also not allowed to hurt children, animals, snatch, dictate when she brushes her teeth, when she gets dressed. She knows we mean it when we tell her to do something or stop doing something.

Do you think that shouting at them isn’t overwhelming for them? At work, would you want your boss to shout at you for doing something wrong or would you rather they take some time to explain what you’ve done wrong, why it is wrong and how to do it correctly? Think about this.

I am really sorry to hear this, I absolutely understand that different circumstances require different actions.

If your child is finding things difficult for a 'variety of reasons' and refusing to shower or attend school then there something bigger going on. You sneer that reasoning with them won't work, but I refuse to believe that yelling at domineering them will work either.

I'm sure planty of people will come and proudly tell me that that's how they get 'results' and the proof is in the pudding but short-term obedience under duress is exactly the parenting model I'd be avoiding at all costs. The damage it does long term cannot be overstated.

Discipline is 100% different to shouting! If DD had pulled my friends hair, I’d absolutely back her up at telling my child a very firm “no”. If we were in a soft play or park setting for example, if my child hit another child I would also expect that parent to give her a firm no even if they didn’t know her. What I don't expect is anyone to shout at her (unless she’s in danger or putting somebody in danger).

Yes. Firm but respectful discipling, even loudly, is very different to shouting to frighten and gain dominance

I was that teenager! I was riddled with anxiety and depression thanks to my shouty household. My saving grace was that I had a great group of friends (who I’m still friends with now). If my DD has any MH problems, learning difficulties etc of course it would change how I react and no I wouldn’t be physically pulling them out of bed and putting them in the shower. What I’m hoping is (providing DD doesn’t have autism or MG problems) that NOT raising her in a shouty, aggressive household will help raise a well rounded and respectful teenager. I don’t like or respect my parents at all because they weren’t gentle at all with me, I was shouted at and belittled from a young age and what that taught me was that my voice didn’t matter.

Where have I sneered that reasoning with them won’t work? Of course it often does!
I was replying to the OP saying that her teenagers wouldn’t have a choice to not shower and to not go to school and I was pointing out that sometimes children (teenagers) sometimes for a ‘variety of reasons’ aren’t willing to listen to reason and asking what she intends to do if her child is in that situation. I haven’t sneered at all!

Whoa, so many of these responses are unhinged!! I’m not a massive proponent of the whole kind hands business, little bit cringe sometimes, but blimey.

I don’t blame you for not wanting to use routine angry shouting as a parenting technique, OP - I don’t either. Why should you have to shout at your child if she stops doing the unwanted behaviour (which wasn’t malicious) without shouting? No gold medals for shouting angrily at your family to “set boundaries” are there?? 😂

To the posters saying their family shouts constantly - yikes, what a headache! Hope you all live in detached houses miles from anyone - I’ve had neighbours like you with no “indoors voices” and it was no fun 😂

'Nice and quiet' does not equal good parenting.

I think that's one of the first and major misunderstandings people have of respectful parenting, that it's permissive. You can hold boundaries and follow through with consequences without aggression.

But people don't even want to try and understand the difference.

You have a very rose tinted coloured glasses view on parenting!

Had to chuckle at this!
Just you wait!!!

I’m sorry you experienced that during your childhood and I have absolutely no issue with your no shouting approach. My parents weren’t very shouty and neither have I been.
I was just commenting when you said you wouldn’t let your children not shower and not to go to school and wondering what you’d do if they were past the point of reasonableness.

I think it’s time to stop commenting on this thread now, we all have different parenting styles.

I don’t think I’m wrong for not shouting at DD but instead being firm but also keeping control of my own emotions/frustrations and I’m glad I married a man who agrees with that.

DD is a lovely kid, she is kind and caring and has lots of friends at nursery and within my friendship group. I’m really proud of her and I’m also not going to let anyone tell me that the occasional smack or whatever from a 2 year old isn’t normal, I know it’s developmentally normal and science backs that but I’ll leave that for you to all have your opinions on. It’s not an every day, every week or every month thing and although she has tantrums (again normal) she hasn’t ever done it whilst being upset, she’s done it only when she’s excited but she still gets a firm no and she doesn’t repeat it, that stops her and I’m not going to punish her over and over again if she’s listened to me and stopped what I’ve asked her to stop doing. What is the point in that other than bullying a child to feel in control?

I’ll leave this thread now, I’ve reported it to Mumsnet as the pile on has got out of control.

It's what I've see in RL from self proclaimed parents - though ask on here gentle parenting is all good parenting techniques.

Mine are very late teens but it was around back then.

I remember a friend who did it had already taken 30 minutes trying to get her primary aged DD to get ready and go after a play date - DH came home gave me a get them gone look - so I picked up coat went to them - arm - arm - then gloved hand hand - one foot next foot - have we got everything slowly herding towards the door - lovely to see you bye. No shouting no pleading no lengthly explinations.

My friend thought it was witch craft ( not literally ) truth was three kids I couldn't do an hour getting them dressed and out the door - count downs for changes and then get done and onto next thing .

Getting 5 people out door on time every morning just couldn't do lengthy explinations - though did had to have lists and lots of scaffolding for mine. Interesingly every morning friend on way to work and child were late - kept getting called into HT to try and sort it even then they didn't seem bothered - would have stressed my kids out to be constanly late.

I did notice PP saying they knew a lovely teen who was gentle parented but it sounded like they were an only child.

I don’t really know the proper definition of gentle parenting (I should probably google it) but I didn’t have to give lengthy explanations. I would just (sharply) say ‘stop that now, don’t hurt people! type explanations without shouting (or smacking). As they got older then explanations they can understand change to fit their age.

My son’s gf has grown up in a shouty house, she hates it and can’t wait to leave.

Don't be petulant. You've have some really decent, measured responses amidst the inevitable MN 'pile on' that occurs within divisive threads.

No. Her post is not Twatty.

I thinks there’s a difference between being a shouty house (in OP’s context and own childhood experience) and being a noisy house. We’re not shouty but we can be noisy (sometimes). A shouty house is what my friend did and it was pretty uncomfortable, a noisy house can be fun and full of positive energy.

Honestly, you and other posters are responding as though OP has said that she said well done to her daughter for pulling her hair. She didn't get a chance to speak to her daughter before her friend shouted at her and made her cry.

There aren't just two completely opposite and extreme ways of parenting, shouting and smacking small children versus never reprimanding or telling a child off no matter how badly they have behaved.

It sounds as though OP's parents practised the more extreme form of discipline when she was a child and, unsurprisingly, this has made her wary of the more draconian ways of disciplining children.

There may be some ridiculously permissive parents who never tell their children off, no matter how poor or even violent their behaviour but I doubt that children who are subjected to verbal abuse and physical punishments in the home emerge unscathed as kind and law abiding members of society.

If her friend had the chance to shout at the child then OP had the chance to stop it too.

But she didn’t

Honestly, this thread reminds me of a thread where OP's small child bit an adult (I think it was a grandparent) who bit them back on the arm.

Many posters were as outraged as the OP but a number of posters proudly announced that they bit their toddlers to 'teach then a lesson' and one poster did it to her baby who bit her during breast feeding. There are some seriously fucked up people on here sometimes.

You are so harsh!