Friend shouted at my 2 year old

[hmm01]

So I popped in to see my friend of 15 years today (we’re 30s now) with my 2 year old.

We were chatting and my 2yo was throwing a ball for her dog, then came to sit on my lap and was laughing and over excited about the dog and pulled my hair. This happens very rarely, slapping, biting or pulling hair when over excited and silly.

Before I had a chance to deal with it, my friend shouted so loud that it made me jump and my child burst into tears. She shouted “DO NOT TOUCH YOUR MUM LIKE THAT” she then went on a rant about how I need to do it back or they’ll keep doing it. We are not a shouty house, we don’t scream and shout at our child ever. We have a calm house so said child isn’t used to this. We explain why they are not to do it, show them how to touch gently and then we say “what do you say” and then we get a sorry and a cuddle and then move on from it. I think I was in shock that she shouted so loud at my child.

She has 3 older kids in their teens and to put it as bluntly but nicely as I can, they’ve all suffered as a result of her verbal abuse and I’ve seen her smack them (not hard but I had no children and I didn’t realise the impact in my early 20s) when they were younger and now she doesn’t have a nice relationship with any of them. They spend all their time in their bedrooms and she recently told me she booked a holiday with them and none of them want to go, they want to go and see their Dad for a couple of weeks instead while she goes alone.

I spent a lot of years helping her with them when their Dad left, I was there every morning to help get them ready for school, breakfast etc I did pick ups when I could, had them stay at mine for weeks during holidays so she could get a break and now I feel really angry that she spoke to my child like that. She isn’t their parent. I said “I’m going to shoot” straight after that and left and now I wish I’d of laid into her a little bit and told her to keep her nose out, it’s my child and I’ll speak to them how I see fit and I’m certainly not pulling their hair, biting or smacking them EVER.

How do I navigate this? I am also heavily pregnant and willing to be told that I’m upset over nothing here, my emotions are all over the place recently!

I don't think your judgemental she had no right shouting at your child if somebody shouted at my child probably would have taken their head off

That’s all well and good if you have settled children but what are you going to do if your teenager is finding things difficult for a variety of reasons and refuses to wash or go to school?
Are you going to shower your 16 year old yourself and physically man handle them to school?
You have a very rose tinted coloured glasses view on parenting!

Perhaps that's why some kids are the way they are these days, because no one will get them in trouble and even when the one person who is the only person allowed to get them in trouble does it so weakly....well, it's not exactly a recipe for success, is it? When we're at a family gathering or among friends, if my child does something naughty and if I don't see it then family/or friends are more than welcome to discipline her.

Maybe she doesn’t because she gets a firm no on the occasion she has done it, what do you think nursery teachers would do? Shout at her? Smack her? They’d do exactly the same as what I do, a firm no and explain why it’s wrong because otherwise they’d be out of a job for being abusive.

There is gentle parenting, which is incredibly hard work and intensive. And lazy parenting which is often mis-named gentle parenting.

I know a family who use gentle parenting. It looks exhausting, explaining, reasoning, discussing every situation to make the child understand the effects and consequences of their actions. The child who NEVER stops asking why. But lovely, polite, well behaved, and well adjusted, fearless and confident children.

Learned behaviour.

Everything is contextual, and there's always a context for shouting. I can shout at children on the street.

I don't think OP's friend needed to shout in this situation. I also don't think it will do any lasting damage.

That's not gentle parenting, it's not parenting at all. Some people label it gentle parenting so they can lie to themselves and say they're parenting when they're not.

Well obviously if I wasn't there, I'd expect whoever was looking after my kids to discipline them if necessary, and appropriately. Which is why certain of my family members have never been allowed to look after my kids! (They are now teenagers and tbh I am pretty proud of them).

It must be confusing for kids if they're parented a certain way at home - ie gentle parenting - and then go to school, which obviously has to have much stricter standards of discipline. Mixed messages there. I should think that's got a lot to do with why some kids are like they are - although there have always been kids that bite and hair-pull, even in the days before 'gentle parenting' was a thing!

OP - it is perfectly normal for year olds to hit/slap/ bite occasionally, it is the prime age for this behaviour,which they will grow out of. Just because all children don't do it doesn't mean it isn't normal (Not all children tantrum, not all children suck their thumb, not all children are shy when they meet a new person - doesn;t make any of these behaviours abnormal)

What i find very strange is that the parents who are outraged by this kind of perecly normal behaviour n an over excited year old, are the pften the ones who use violence against their onm children. Your friend being a case in point, she shouted at your hild for pullng you hair, but thought it perfectly OK for her, a big grown up woman who can presumably emotionally regulate, to hit tiny people.

I think from some of the responses on here we can see who the shouters and hitters are, sad to see there are so many verbally and physically violent parents around. And those mocking you for saying 'we are not a shouty household' presumbaly they would say 'we are a shouty household' and be proud of their inability to control themseves around children. Shame on them for thier inadequacy.

It is never necessary to shout at a 2 year old , they respond perfectly well to a firm tone and an appropriate consequence if behaviour continues.
You are doing a great job OP, I would give this friend a wide berth, she sounds horrible.

Shout households CAN be abusive.
When my DC were younger, I was experiencing very poor mental health and I was too shouty with them. It was scary for them and I'd class it as me being verbally and emotionally abusive.
I will never forgive myself for this, nor should I.
I got better, I'm a much better parent now, but the damage is done, because I see my children flinch if my voice is too loud.
So, I'd far rather see a parent like OP, than one like her friend, with children.

Perhaps that's why some kids are the way they are these days, because no one will get them in trouble and even when the one person who is the only person allowed to get them in trouble does it so weakly....well, it's not exactly a recipe for success, is it? When we're at a family gathering or among friends, if my child does something naughty and if I don't see it then family/or friends are more than welcome to discipline her.

100% Agree with this!

How could you correct behaviour that never happened?

You’re not overreacting, your friend was completely out of line. It’s not her place to yell at your child, especially when it goes against your calm parenting approach.

You did the right thing by leaving. If you keep the friendship, set a clear boundary: “Please don’t ever shout at my child again.” How she responds will tell you a lot.

I think I was doing gentle parenting before there was a word for it, but I hate the phrase, it sounds so wet and insipid. It’s the name not the methods that cause so much vitriol because, no matter how many times you explain that it’s not the same as permissive parenting, there are people who just can’t compute the difference.

But that's the world really isn't it, different rules for different places. Kids need to learn this. Nursery/school/playgroups/church/medical appointments, acceptable behaviour is different in all of these. School staff will treat them different to Nursery staff and staff will treat them different to parents who may treat them differently to grandparents.

You also don't have a crystal ball to know your daughter won't stay in her room all the time or refuse school when a teenager. You're being far too smug and naive there. There is a thread on here where the mother and father are bending over backwards for their teenage daughter, making sure she knows she's loved, gives her pocket money on the days she is nice to her parents, and the daughter treats her parents like absolute shit, won't clean up, or do anything. So you really, really, really don't know how your daughter will be as a teenager until you get to that horrible stage. You don't have a crystal ball. Famous last words, and all that. Nothing more smug than a parent that doesn't yet have a teenager. Hopefully your daughter will go through the teen years as well as you think, but you really don't know until you get there. Some of the nicest an quietest parents have had some of the most horrid teenagers.

@BunnyLake i agree.

My parents never smacked, never shouted, always explained and reasoned. I follow their way of parenting as it is what I was brought up with. We are a well balanced happy family and no one in my generation or my children's generation have ever been any trouble. I never deliberately followed any 'method' as such nobody has ever questioned how I parent, it works, my kids show it does. If I went around saying I was gentle parenting then I suspect it would raise eyebrows.

I question the people saying that these gently parented kids will have a shock when they get to Nursery, School etc. I have never seen a good teacher who shouts at the class. The best teachers are the calm and rational ones who don't need to shout. Children who were not taught right from wrong will have a shock. Children who were taught right from wrong without any threats or shouting will fit in just right. Children who only behave if someone has shouted in their face with an implied threat, will probably be a nightmare to teach as they react to a threat, but have not been taught right from wrong.

@hmm01 You’re absolutely right, I would hate your household if it involves shouting at each other when unhappy

So, you’re fine with a household being shouty when happy, shouty when excited, shouty with no reason basically all as base case, but not shouty when unhappy? You want different behaviour in that particular instance to every other scenario? How odd. That would strike me as freaky and dysfunctional if I were a child and there was such a marked behaviour shift when people were unhappy!

I think GP is fine for very quiet, reserved children. But most toddlers don't fit that model. They push, test boundaries and NEED to be put in their place. I've got a friend who uses GP. I've honestly watched her husband spend over an hour trying to convince their lovely, but very strong willed son, to leave a playground. Whereas I just bark a 5 minute warning and then call my DD.

Exactly this. My youngest has ADHD, when his dad died i was working part-time and he was absolutely refusing to go to school. I ended up taking one day off to try and get him to go, that didn't work, after that i refused to take any more time off, now he's in a children's home. He's 13.

No, but GOOD teachers have iron clad authority. They don't shout because they don't need to. A look will calm the class. This authority is built up over time by having rock solid boundaries. Consequences will have been consistently applied until eventually, they have built a take-no-shit reputation. It isn't gentle teachering. It's authoritative teachering.

There's a huge difference between children shouting at children and an adult in a position of power doing it to control their behaviour.

Neither one is acceptable, but they're not the same thing at all. I'm surprised you think they are.

@TheAmusedQuail gentle parents can also have rock solid boundaries. They just teach them in a rational way. Children will know not to cross them because they will understand the actual or potential consequences. This is better than the shouty because i said so which teaches nothing.