Friend shouted at my 2 year old

[hmm01]

So I popped in to see my friend of 15 years today (we’re 30s now) with my 2 year old.

We were chatting and my 2yo was throwing a ball for her dog, then came to sit on my lap and was laughing and over excited about the dog and pulled my hair. This happens very rarely, slapping, biting or pulling hair when over excited and silly.

Before I had a chance to deal with it, my friend shouted so loud that it made me jump and my child burst into tears. She shouted “DO NOT TOUCH YOUR MUM LIKE THAT” she then went on a rant about how I need to do it back or they’ll keep doing it. We are not a shouty house, we don’t scream and shout at our child ever. We have a calm house so said child isn’t used to this. We explain why they are not to do it, show them how to touch gently and then we say “what do you say” and then we get a sorry and a cuddle and then move on from it. I think I was in shock that she shouted so loud at my child.

She has 3 older kids in their teens and to put it as bluntly but nicely as I can, they’ve all suffered as a result of her verbal abuse and I’ve seen her smack them (not hard but I had no children and I didn’t realise the impact in my early 20s) when they were younger and now she doesn’t have a nice relationship with any of them. They spend all their time in their bedrooms and she recently told me she booked a holiday with them and none of them want to go, they want to go and see their Dad for a couple of weeks instead while she goes alone.

I spent a lot of years helping her with them when their Dad left, I was there every morning to help get them ready for school, breakfast etc I did pick ups when I could, had them stay at mine for weeks during holidays so she could get a break and now I feel really angry that she spoke to my child like that. She isn’t their parent. I said “I’m going to shoot” straight after that and left and now I wish I’d of laid into her a little bit and told her to keep her nose out, it’s my child and I’ll speak to them how I see fit and I’m certainly not pulling their hair, biting or smacking them EVER.

How do I navigate this? I am also heavily pregnant and willing to be told that I’m upset over nothing here, my emotions are all over the place recently!

Ha the child won’t do it again though will it? Job done.

You’ve watched your friend raise her kids. Why are you surprised that she shouted at your dd? She clearly doesn’t approve of how you raise your child and was going to shout one day.
Also you think that your friend is an abusive and crap parent, why would you take your dd round? It’s one thing to support what you consider abusive parenting but it was inevitable that dd with he exposed if you took her round.
I’m surprised that you consider her a best friend yet have written such a critical post. While I don’t think that shouting was appropriate, I don’t understand why you want to socialise with someone who you clearly judge very negatively either.
Your comments about teens are laughable and naive. It’s very common for teens to want to stay in their rooms and there’s hundreds of posts where they don’t enjoy holidays in their teen years. A shower dodging phase isn’t unusual either. If you’re s kind parent, how would you convince your teen to shower or go to school? I’ve not experienced school refusal because I’ve been fortunate not to have a child with poor mental health but I don’t think it’s a parenting problem.
IME children do random impulsive stuff when they are 2 (and older!) and your friend should have given you a chance to tell off your dd first but I suspect that she judges your parenting as too ineffective hence the shouting. You are at opposite ends of the parenting scale and there’s no middle ground here.

Well they will for the mother but at least they won’t around the friend I guess!

Fair enough then. I’m with you. Don’t get me wrong, I have raised my voice at my child (I can probably count on one hand the amount of times I have done it in the nearly 8 years since he was born) if I was in the wrong, I apologise to him.

But I did start to change my approach when he got a little older - I did it gradually from about age 3 and I never need to shout at him now. A firm ‘no’ and the ‘mom look’ usually does the trick 😂

I'm always a tiny bit sceptical when someone says a person 'shouted' at their child... Because I know a lot of people who would describe someone shouting who has in fact just raised their voice for impact. The two are not the same thing. Plenty of parents, teachers, people in all walks of life raise their voice to ensure they are listened to. Shouting is quite different.
But a lot of people these days seem to feel only super soft gentle voices must be used at all times... They are the ones whose kids tend to struggle when they hit secondary school and constantly claim teachers are 'shouting at them' just because the teacher raised their voice.

I didnt witness what happened with you and your friend OP so can't comment in this instance. But I would definitely be taking a firm tone with hair pulling, you need to nip that in the bud and sometimes the longer explanations about why they shouldn't do it etc don't really get understood by a young child.

At 2 a firm clear NO is likely all that was needed.

If you can't tell her don't shout at my child - or a direct I was dealing with that - then don't be round her with you kid.

I know some posters think she was trying to be helpful but I had family who did such things to undermine us and be top dog as it were - just a gentle oi - I was dealing with that stopped most of it. No idea if that's the case here.

Your parenting styles do sound just too different and if she can't respect you and your parenting probably too stressful to continue seeing her with young child with you.

It's always the children who are being raised with 'gentle' parenting methods who are the worst behaved.

If she goes around slapping and hair pulling at nursery she will get a real shock when some children decide to hit her back. Horrible behaviour, and contrary to popular opinion, not normal for todders. Mine never hit, bit or slapped. Actually do some parenting and tell her off, and nip it in the bud.

Yes get a spine OP and sort this out now, otherwise you’ll be getting calls from nursery/school saying X has bitten/pulled hair of another child. That said, reading some of the stories on MN some schools sound useless at dealing with this. OP you might hope the child who is bitten/hair pulled by your child does not have a Mother like I am, as I told my child to do it back to them. Not that it ever happened, but you know, your child might experience his own medicine one day if you don’t teach him now.

Exactly. I got sick of going to toddler groups only for my child to get hurt by others and the parents doing bugger all about it. I understand that children do at times act inappropriately which may include hitting and if another child hit mine and the parent immediately dealt with it appropriately and took steps to prevent it from happening again then there would be no issue. But more and more you see them just letting the child hit or hurt others and either nothing is said or it's a weak "come on now timmy, we don't hit, gentle hands". And the kid will do it numerous times during the session. If my kid hit/pulled hair etc then it would be dealt with and I'd be telling them that if it happens again then we go home. And follow up on that.

Op I believe you. I have a toddler who hits as well at times, it is normal. We correct her, and don’t allow it. I have an older child who never hit. So it happens.

I would never accept a friend shouting at my child. I think you might have been in shock but today you can definitely send her a message telling her that was completely out of line and never to do that again. You have helped her a lot so it seems like you do have the right regardless about telling her how you feel

If that was my teenager, they’d be going to school and showering.

Given that you’ve never had to deal with a teenager and have zero idea what you’re talking about, you’ve got a hell of a shock waiting for you around 2037.

Honestly I'm no fan of gentle parenting but there is a world of difference between screaming and shouting and calmly firmly telling them off - one is effective one not.

It's like when gentle parent proponents insists anything but gentle parenting is abuisve hitting or screaming - rather than occaionally raising voice and being clear and direct. If is sounds reaonable suddenly your are gentle parenting - and anything that can be misconstruned as abuse is.

Should hair pulling and hitting be dealt with - obviosuly - but undermining a parent before they have a chance to deal with it isn't helpful nether is shouting or going on a long rant - short sharp and simple at 2 all that's needed.

This happens very rarely, slapping, biting or pulling hair when over excited and silly

My kids never ever did this to me, and I'm afraid that I would shout if I saw a child do this. It's not normal.

All the shouty parents telling you off for being precious!

I would not spend time with someone who thought it was appropriate to shout at my children. You may discipline them however you choose they can raise an eyebrow if they don't agree but not criticize you or take the job on themselves.

My personal view, anyone who needs to shout at or hit their children is out of control and poor at parenting. There are way of bringing up well behaved children that doesn't teach them that verbal or physical abuse or threatening behavior is appropriate.

Op I believe you. I have a toddler who hits as well at times, it is normal

No, it's not.

Oh please 😂 she isn't at nursery slapping or pulling hair because we teach her that it’s wrong and if she does do it, I fully expect the other child to do it back and for nursery teachers to tell her a very firm no. I’m so glad your perfect kids never hit or bit but it is incredibly normal developmentally.

It depends on the child - at 2 it's not that unusual.

What is does need is calm clear firm and consistsent reponse and dealing with every time - and if a known problem heading off with distraction technquies before it gets to that stage.

Maybe don’t poke your nose in and shout at kids that aren’t yours? You can verbally abuse your kids if you wish, but you won’t do it to mine.

We have two families are our school who practice gentle parenting, as well as teaching it to others for a job - three children in each family.

All six children all have reputations for being nasty and badly behaved, are constantly in trouble with the school for bullying, fighting and pissing about in class. I constantly see these children at parties, pushing and shoving other children, purposely popping balloons and being rude to adults, while their parents offer a weak 'be kind please' from halfway across the room. One bit my youngest several times at nursery, and had I witnessed it myself, he certainly would have been shouted at, very loudly. Crappy parenting breeds vile kids.

I’m so glad your perfect kids never hit or bit but it is incredibly normal developmentally

It's not though. You are trying to normalise your kids behaviour (for some reason), but pulling hair and biting..... BITING!!!! is bloody awful, and likely an indicator that something is really wrong. I've got 2 kids and 7 godchildren, all now grown up, and none of them EVER behaved like this, not even once.

I'd be furious if a friend or family member disciplined my child. That's my job. So I do think your friend was out of order. I do also think 'gentle parenting' raises spoilt, entitled, badly behaved children though - certainly, that's been the case with the kids at my kids' schools. My kids have never bitten me, slapped me or or pulled my hair, even when they were tiny. They know better than to do that. I think it's really important to set boundaries when they're young so they grow into respectful teens/adults (and you don't need to yell at them or raise a hand to them to achieve this either).

That would be “permissive parenting” what you describe going on at parties not “gentle parenting” even though I don’t think I necessarily follow “gentle parenting” I just don’t shout or be aggressive to my child.

I would never allow my DD to behave like that towards anyone and she would be removed from the party if she ever did, don’t get it twisted.

@hmm01 honestly, dont waste your breath. There's too many posters on here who will make up their own story based on what they have decided happened and no matter how many times you try to explain things, they just run with their version. Its really not worth arguing with. You could come back with a link to nanny cam footage of it and they'd still tell you it didnt happen the way the camera shows. Leave them to it. They're happier that way. They can just fight with each other about it.

You dont have to shout at your kids in order to discipline them. She should not have shouted at your child.

So she's happy to slap and pull hair at home, but not the other kids at nursery?

Why is that? Because she has zero respect for you? Maybe the nursery teachers actually discipline her.