Son asked for advice - what would you advise him?

[SallyMcCarthy]

My 21-year-old son and his gf have been together 3 years. In Feb 23, they split up for a few months after both treating each other badly. Then in summer 2023 they got back together, committed to making it work, and have been happy together ever since. My husband and I welcomed the gf back into our life instantly and unconditionally. From our point of view, whatever had gone wrong between them and then been sorted out was entirely their business. All we needed to know was that our son had now decided he wanted to be with her again. It was up to him! Since he now wants her in his life, she’s of course going to be part of ours.

Her dad took a different approach, however: he told her that it wasn’t good enough that she and my son had apologised to each other, sorted it out and got back together. He said he wouldn’t allow my son back at his dinner table until my son had apologised to him for the way he had treated his daughter.

My son, thinking this man was unreasonable, and being unwilling to pander to such interference and boundary violation, didn’t apologise to his girlfriend’s dad, and as a result has been ostracised by her family ever since. So, my son and his girlfriend have been hanging out with our family a lot. She’s been treated like a member of our family - allowed to stay and eat with us all the time, taken out for meals, taken on holidays… we’ve all just accepted that this is how it’s going to be - our family being nice to her while hers is horrible to my son.

However… a problem has now arisen. My son was planning to treat her to an amazing holiday abroad, which he was going to pay for and was happy to pay for. Then, just as he was about to book it, he found out that she was going on holiday with her family for a week later in the summer - and that her brother and sister’s respective girlfriends and boyfriends were invited on this holiday. His girlfriend also blamed him for the fact that he wasn’t invited and said to him, ‘It’s your fault you’re not invited - why can’t you just apologise to my dad like he’s wanted you to since Feb 2023?’

My son told me last night that he’s now feeling much less keen to treat his girlfriend to this holiday, for two reasons:

1. she seems to think he is entirely responsible for the continuing problem between him and her family, rather than realising her dad is the unreasonable one - and he’s hurt that she hasn’t in any way stuck up for him to her dad or advocated for him - instead she’s blaming this long-standing issue totally on my son.

2. he no longer feels comfortable that he, and our family, are treating her so nicely and treating her to all this stuff, and she’s happily accepting all of it while also allowing her family to exclude my son and being willing to go on holiday with them while they exclude him, and blaming it all on him.

I think it is totally reasonable of him to have qualms about treating her to a holiday given that she’s not, as he sees it, sticking up for him to her dad? But am I being unreasonable?

Does she live at home with her parents? This is time for them both to decide if they are adults in an adult relationship or if they are casual boyfriend and girlfriend.
From her dad's perspective, your son treated his 18/19 year old badly, he saw how upset she was and wanted your son to reassure him he would not hurt her again. I agree that it sits uncomfortably with the girlfriend being her own adult person and not her dad's chattel. But I think in that situation, I probably would have given him the benefit of being an overprotective loving dad and said some placatory words.
The fact that 2 years on neither the dad nor your son have backed down over this and are letting their male egos take priority over the girlfriend's feelings speaks volumes.
Why is your son paying for the girl to go on holiday? Her dad is treating her as his little princess and it seems your son wants to as well. And they are locked in a battle over who is the alpha male in her life.
They are both young. Maybe the relationship has legs or maybe it is time. If your son thinks there is a future, he needs to take his own ego out of the balance, try and see it from both the girl and her dad's perspectives and decide with his girlfriend what relationship he would like to have with her family.
I would not expect there to be any cosy family holidays any time soon, but maybe the odd chat over a coffee.

He should not be paying for her holiday at all

Seriously - every time they quarrel over the next fifty years he has to apologise to her father? 😂

Nope.

How did your son behave to her? Was her treatment of him comparable?

Did he cheat on her?

First of all, you need to be sure you have the whole story straight. Is there any reason the GF's dad might have to be personally aggrieved? Did your DS say something to him at the time, or do something aimed at or directly affecting him? It's odd that he wants an apology to him, and not to him and GF's mum. Well, odd at all, but you know what I mean.

On the face of it, the dad is being controlling and petty. But now your DS not wanting to take GF away in revenge sounds like he's going down the same path.

Finally, at 21 are they still students or do they work? Because if so the GF might not even be able to take AL for both holidays especially so close togother and in your DS's choice case, at rather short notice.

I think her dad is the unreasonable one here. Their falling out is nothing to do with either set of parents and neither partner owes an apology to anyone except each other.

And l don’t for a second believe that DD’s dad doesn’t know the damage his stance is doing to their relationship - it was designed to split them up and he was playing the long game IMO. It’s pathetic, and if his GF is supporting her dad instead of having DS’s back then the sooner he’s out of that toxic relationship, the better.

I wouldn’t have apologised to the father either unless your ds had done something directly to offend him .
Has he told gf about the holiday? It’s reasonable if he’s reevaluating the relationship it doesn’t sound like it has long term sustainability. His gf needed to take a stand with dad (regarding dad’s attitude not holiday) or if she agrees with her dad end things with bf.
He’s currently being sidelined by her family whilst she is welcomed into his home. How long will that carry on? Why should he accept being looked down on by his gf family .

Your son's GF is an adult, she willingly restarted her relationship with your DS. Its not appropriate for your DS to apologise to her DF - does he not have to apologise to her DM too in that case? What is he apologising for? Not being rude but they are only 21, relationships come and go and are full of drama at that age. She sounds a bit of a princess tbh - everyone seems to be running around paying for meals and holidays for her.
If your DS apologises, it sends a message that she gets what she wants. It would be a red line for me.

I'd advise him to end the relationship, or, if he didn't want to, to at least scale it back. Stop having her at yours all the time and taking her everywhere, see her a few times a week, and spend the rest of the time concentrating on work, friends and hobbies. And yes, cancel the holiday. Not to punish her, but to distance from the current level of intensity. He lacks the emotional maturity to manage a relationship with a hostile family in the mix.
I'd not phrase it that way, id probably tell him he's too young for this hassle and should be enjoying life and comcerntrating on other things.
I'd also have a review of my own behaviour and dial back how much i was facilitating them living in each others pockets. Its nice to be the percieved good guy family that the couple want to be with, but by practically adopting her, you've shielded them from dealing with this issue properly.

They’re both young, if they want to go on holiday together, they should both pay their own share. If he pays for her he’s creating inequality in their relationship and trying to be the “big man” in competition with her father. I agree with other posters, it all sounds toxic and most likely doomed.

At 21 he shouldn’t be lavishing holidays on her. This relationship is not likely to stand the test of time. There is plenty of time to take amazing holidays in future - this year why not do something cheap and simple?

Tell your son to run for the hills! Her dad is controlling and there is no future for this relationship. Seriously my eldest ds married a girl who had controlling parents, it destroyed their marriage.

I’m not sure the son is being unreasonable?

why would the father deserve an apology unless the son behaved badly towards him?

it sounds like the dad is a complete sexist arsehole. If this was his son’s girlfriend and they had a row and got back together would he demand an apology?

in this situation, if I was the son, I would want to understand the dad’s reasoning a bit better. But he sounds unhinged. I wouldn’t pander to it. And I certainly wouldn’t want to spend time with him.

When the relationship was poor, did it directly affect the girlfriend’s father beyond the emotional impact?
Did he, for example, have to drive and collect her in the middle of the night? Did they have blazing rows in his house? Did he pay for things that didn’t happen because they’d fallen out? I would expect an apology for anything that impacted me in that way.
If it is just ‘apologise to me because you upset my daughter’ then he can stuff it.

If your son thought it reasonable enough to apologise to his girlfriend then it is also reasonable to apologise to her parents.

He must have treated her poorly.
She must have treated your son poorly. Surely you would not have objected to her apologising to you, should she have done so.

Wiping the slate clean and trying again in good faith is worthwhile.

Her parents have standards for how their daughter should be treated, that's all.

If your son truly was wanting a long term relationship with this girl he has to factor in having a good long term relationship with her family. That is common sense.

What does he have to lose?
The ramifications are now clear to see.
I don't think they will last unless your son gains humility.

Explain this to me. If someone treats me poorly I expect an apology. My parents do not. These are adults, why should they apologize to each others parents?

They should split up.

He's only 21, they've already been together 3 years, and he has a very toxic relationship with her family. He'd be better off being single again, enjoying his own life, and then eventually forming a long term relationship with someone else minus the drama.

He probably also needs to learn that sometimes it's worth apologising even when you don't think something is your fault, for the greater good. But it sounds too late for that in this particular situation.

If your son thought it reasonable enough to apologise to his girlfriend then it is also reasonable to apologise to her parents

It really isn't. I don't understand your thinking at all.

If your son thought it reasonable enough to apologise to his girlfriend then it is also reasonable to apologise to her parents.

Why? He apologised to his girlfriend, she apologised to him: -why does anyone else need an apology? Children don’t belong to their parents; they aren’t an extension of their parents.

I could understand her father insisting on an apology TO HIS DAUGHTER before allowing the son back, but that happened. No need to apologise to the parents. They are not relevant in a dispute between boyfriend and girlfriend. It is very weird and controlling on the part of her father.

Imagine how this plays out though if they stay together. The dad believes he has ultimate power and can’t cope with anyone not obeying him. He responds to any failure to fall in line by excluding the culprit and everyone supports him. His daughter can’t or won’t stand up to him.

the son should run from this awful family. He will have decade of rows ahead of him if the daughter is allowed to stay in this relationship. Imagine the dynamic with grandchildren - big life decisions like buying a house, schools, holidays, etc etc. dad thinks he is top dog.

This is such a good point!

The girl’s father sounds like a control freak, I don’t blame your son for not pampering to his demands. I can’t see the relationship being secure for long time.

My biggest issue with dad, is that HE wants an apology for way his daughter was treated. Jeez, even if lad abused the girl, got arrested, went to prison and they never got back together he does not owe that DAD the apology. It’s the girl he hurt . If apologies are needed it is to her.

This dad sounds like a lot of men when women in their lives are hurt or abused, they feel anger or frustration themselves that they’re not in control of preventing that distress to their female relative , and can’t process and focus on supporting that women. So to feel some power over lack of control, they seek vengeance on the perpetrators. It also reeks of misogyny that daughter accepted apologies from lad (or whatever) but he “knows better” and is demanding this apology to himself, as if she has no self autonomy or self advocacy.

son and gf sound young. If he is paying for holiday at that age it all sounds a bit too full on . He has way more important things he can spend that sort of cash on at that age. Holidays should be paid for jointly . Talk to him about loaning and borrowing money for friends too whilst you’re at it…it rarely ends well

in short, he’s in a realtionship with a girl who’s father is treating her as a child and she appears to be happy with that. She will probably expect that model to be the way son treats her…unlikley to end well . Most young women with a sense of independence and self esteem wouldn’t accept that sort of gift and at least pay half.

She’ll grow up eventually, hopefully and break away from dad…but right now she is still the child in dad’s eyes.

I expect there is a different story from the other side to the one you're hearing from your son.

That aside

Your son can't say he is sorry for something though, that he clearly isn't sorry for - if we take it as the father wants an apology for how he treated his daughter - your son has apologised and made up, but how can he be sorry to other people? Your son isn't sorry for the dad or to the dad. Apologies don't really work like that.

I wonder if there is an actual problem that the dad had with something your son did and that is where the apology lies.

Communication is the key and a meeting between the father and your son needs to be had to find out. how this can be resolved - without this communication and trying to solve the problem - the issue will never go away and make the relationship problematic as the daughter will be loyal to her dad - and rightly so

Ultimately your son needs to request a met between him and the father and explain the met is to try to resolve the issue - just between the two of them

Sounds as though she may well put her father first. Her father sounds very controlling over an event that happened when your DS and the GF were 18. He clearly hasn’t forgotten/forgiven and this doesn’t bode well for the future.

I would be encouraging my DS to cool things down slightly. They are still very young.