Termination of pregnancies - too willing to terminate, maybe there are other choices?

[Ilovepastafortea]

I have trouble with the issue of terminating pregnancies.

For context I had 5 miscarriages & 1 baby born 'sleeping' at 29 weeks.

Also 2 of my (3) husbands were adopted-well DH's mother was adopted in the 1920's. The point is if abortion was available in 1963 & 1926 neither of them would have existed. Their childless mothers wouldn't have had babies to love & care for.

If my first husband had been aborted my lovely son wouldn't exist. He killed himself at the age of 32 leaving me with a baby. But at least I had my baby which was part of him.

If my DH's mother had been aborted my 3 lovely step children & 7 gorgeous grandchildren wouldn't be here. Both of my step sons served in the Royal Navy - one in special forces & got his Green (Marine) beret. My Step daughter is a nurse & worked in A&E for many years, is now a Matron. She has saved many lives & made a difference to many other people's lives including taking unpaid leave to be there when her grandmother was dying.

But then I understand why some people do it.

I can particularly understand it if the woman has been abused or raped - who would want to bring their abuser's or rapist's child into the world. I get that.

I just wish that they would think about having their unwanted baby adopted so that someone who can't have a baby can love & care for it.

My heart goes out to those with an unwanted pregnancy & facing this.

I don't know what I'd do to be honest.

I have no doubt that most women terminate a pregnancy after much heart searching & grief. However, I also hear about women who are terminating their 3rd or more pregnancies & using it as a method of birth control.

So brings me around to AIBU to ask if people terminate a pregnancy number 3 or 4 are being unreasonable?

Or not.

Just canvassing opinions.

A very long and rambling post to say you don't believe in a woman's right to bodily autonomy.
If you don't want an abortion, don't have one. It's really simple.

not your body not your choice

Thank you for your comment.

I rambled because I wanted to make my position clear.

In the past I've been criticised for drip feeding.

edited for typo

Other women's bodies are none of your business.

You specifically say baby 3 and 4 - you mean women who already have children and are opting not to have more?

I can imagine such a decision is very difficult for them. Abortion is not the easy way out.

In general though - having to put your body through pregnancy, birth and post-partum to give the baby away is a huge thing.

Women body womens choice. If you start putting lots of conditions on a choice, you remove the choice element

Not your monkeys.

However it's well worth noting that people rarely choose between adoption and abortion. They choose between abortion and raising the child nowadays. And a big reason for abortion is the cost of raising a child. We don't seem prepared to do very much about that.

Well said

But what about the baby?

“My body, my choice”
That’s it, really.

Your position is that if you want women to give birth to unwanted babies so they can be adopted 🙄
My position is nobody should be forced to give birth if they don't want to.
Women can terminate as many times as they want to.

It's not a baby, it's a foetus.

Don't use emotional language to sway the argument.

This is just a conventional pro life argument that you’ve tried to dress up as something more thoughtful.

Until 25+ weeks minimum the foetus cannot survive without the mother and so does not have autonomy.

There are so many children needing to be adopted and even the ones who are by people who (think) they can love and care from them start life disadvantaged and with a huge trauma.

youre not thinking about the baby your just thinking of the people who can’t have a baby and want one.
why would you wish more children can be born to suffer?

You don’t have to understand it, and you’re entitled to have trouble with the idea of terminating your own pregnancies. What other women choose to do with their bodies isn’t your business. Expecting that a woman should spend nine months pregnant and go through childbirth, with all the risks to health and even life that comes with, because adoption makes you feel better, is just downright offensive.

I don't believe embryos and foetuses are babies, and luckily the law agrees with me.

You can’t argue that somebody shouldn’t have an abortion because if your ex-husband had been aborted you wouldn’t have your son! If your parents had sent you to a different school or moved house to another city when you were 10 or made other different choices the course of your life would have been different and it’s likely you wouldn’t have met your husband and had your son, but you would hardly argue that moving house or changing a kids schools are bad ideas because if your parents had done those things you wouldn’t have had your son.

Let’s also not forget that many of those babies adopted pre-1960s were done so in terrible circumstances for the mothers - they often didn’t want to give up their babies, had been abandoned by the fathers, institutionalised by their parents etc.

It’s more heartbreaking to see the unwanted children in the world, unfortunately there are huge amounts of children in care who will never be adopted or even fostered.

efforts should be put into focusing on the children who are already here and need a home not creating more unwanted children

It sounds like you’ve had a lot of trauma in your life and this might be affecting your response. I’m sorry to hear that you had to deal with so many miscarriages and a stillbirth, I hope over the years that you’ve been able to talk to people about this and if you haven’t that you might still consider to do so.
In my experience, women do not take abortion lightly and they do not use it as a form of contraception. I have had two terminations myself and both were as a result of contraception failure - both times I was in relationships with men who I did not think were suitable partners in terms of becoming fathers. Both times I was not in the situation to be able to take care of a child as a single parent and I considered it best for myself and for the unborn child that I did not continue with the pregnancy. My mental health would not have allowed me to continue with the pregnancy and then give that child up for adoption.
I sympathise hugely with people who suffer from persistent infertility, but it is not my job to provide children for them as a result of my own contraceptive failures.
Logistically, I do struggle with statements when people say that if somebody had been aborted, they would not be here today. I mean, I understand that that is true but also they wouldn’t know it and you wouldn’t know it, so it’s a false premise to start a discussion from and also one that is needlessly solipsistic.

I have zero regrets about the abortion I had when I was 28. I was in no position to provide the right conditions for a child and having a termination was the least selfish move I made during a period of my life I was making very poor choices.
You're perfectly entitled to your views on abortion, but luckily women these days have choice.
Better a termination than an unwanted child or one born into adversity.

Why do you think women have abortions?

Do you imagine it’s because they can’t be arsed with parenting? Because the idea that giving a child up for adoption is easy or straightforward emotionally is absolutely idiotic.

There are plenty of excellent reasons to have an abortion and the only person who needs to make that decision is the pregnant woman.

What baby? The ones that are unwanted and unloved, the ones that are neglected and abused as a result?

the foetus inside of a woman that is aborted does not exist on its own, it’s not a baby with and identity

I hear what you’re saying. I’m not pro choice. Pro choice is right up to the end and no I don’t believe in abortion at 38 weeks. I believe in a woman’s choice up to 20 weeks. Even that’s tough but I get things progress and show up at this point.

I also understand there are
certain circumstances. Children. Learning disabilities. But the majority of women who can take responsibility for themselves should do. Men obviously should but it’s none of their business if a woman wants an abortion or
not.

There is no baby if it's not born.