WIBU - DC kicking me during meal

[identifiables]

It got brought up in couples therapy that I’d left the dinner table and taken my food to eat in another room.

I explained to the therapist that DC was repeatedly kicking me during the meal and had refused to stop when asked. I had explained that I do not want to be kicked. No one likes being kicked, it hurts. They carried on, I initially moved one seat away but they still managed to kick me so I said I do not want to be kicked, so if you will not stop kicking I will have to leave the table. They didn’t stop so I left the table. DCs Dad was still sitting opposite them at the table, not getting kicked. DC was 3yo, intelligent, no SEN, good comprehension, generally well behaved on the whole. From my perspective I was teaching using natural consequences that if you hurt people they won’t want to be near you.

The therapist said I was wrong to do this, something about rejection or punishing by withdrawal I think and that my child should know I will always be there. Something along those lines.

Was I unreasonable to leave the table? How would you have handled this?

YABU = You should have handled this differently. Please post any suggestions how you would have handled it.
YANBU = You handled this well enough.

No, I don’t think you did anything wrong - did the 3yo cry when you left and have you come back if so? Just to be clear, I am a gentle parent and did attachment parenting, not leaving to cry etc. but I would not have tolerated being kicked, during a meal or otherwise.

But also, some of the responses on this thread are shocking, “time outs”? “Punishment”? “Naughty chair”?

I think the therapist was talking absolute nonsense.

If you'd removed your child from the room, then you wouldn't be able to enjoy your meal anyway because he'd be annoyed and aggravating you. He'd hardly sit in silence, would he?

Sometimes the easiest solution is to think you won't eat a main meal with them while they're that age. I look forward to my evening meal but if it was accompanied by stress I would dread it. I'd be in the same room but doing something like folding washing or something like that, so that I could still chat but would be a little bit occupied. I'd eat when he was in bed or when my husband was looking after him.

As someone who has done several parenting classes and has a child with challenging behaviour, we are always told to remove ourselves from the situation if being hit/kicked etc

If this is couples counselling then I'd say your counsellor has sided with your husband from the get go.

Why is a therapist you are seeing for couples therapy telling you how to handle your child? Why is your partner not stepping up when your child is kicking you? It sounds like you were doing your best under the circumstances.

Your therapist is a dick and I say this s a retired therapist.

I think you were far too soft on him. I have a 3 year old and first kick would have been the warning look and “no kicking” (at this point my DS would usually say sorry) however, if he carried on, he would told to get down from the table and to only return when he was ready to say sorry and eat dinner properly at the table. I think your other problem though is your DH because mine would not have sat in silence while our son misbehaved and would be backing me up with warnings.

@identifiables please take the suggestions here with a grain of salt re removal, naughty step, warnings etc. your child is 3 and not all are capable of putting that together. Modelling consistent expectations is important and you and partner need to be on the same page. Couples therapy shouldn't be a place to get blamed either. IMO the therapist should've be asking about your choice and then asking your DP how that made him feel and why and then encourage you both to discuss your triggers rooted in your own upbringing and find common ground on how to approach future situations.

As for you son kicking: what were his needs? I (try to) approach with curiosity about the behaviour's cause.
not hungry, bored, a previous unresolved issue, wanting attention/trying to play/looking for a different reaction
At 3 a child can't express the nuances of emotion, it's very black and white and basic. Try: Nathan, don't kick me. It hurts me. Happens again then repeat. Happens again, get up, take Nathan's hand, go to another room. Sit at eye level, ask, Nathan why are you kicking me? What's wrong? What do you want? Resolve.
Repeating this type of response (it's not going to be perfect and might not work right away) teaches the child to think about expressing needs to you and as the brain develops cements in healthier and more respectful ways to communicate.

It's not easy. I'm prone to being very shouty and swift with removal as punishment and am working on better methods. (As above).

What a load of shite therapists come out with. I would have removed the child until they behaved but you probably did the right thing. This is why we have the problems with kids today. Could you imagine doing that to your patents????

Isit your child

The therapist said I was wrong to do this, something about rejection or punishing by withdrawal I think and that my child should know I will always be there. Something along those lines.

I'd be saving my money if this is the rubbish you're paying for

@OP The parenting space have some decent evidence based resources. They're British which I find comforting and we're developed in conjunction with one of the NHS trusts. Not sure what they have on time outs though.

In response to "should it be you or dad"
I think kicking is a behaviour so poor that in my house now or when I was a child the dad would have been straight in there to correct the child and defend his wife but tbh you can't control his behaviour, only your own, so in your shoes I'd get on with it. There's a world of difference between dad saying "you do not treat your mother like that" and a dad reluctantly saying "your mum says I have to put you in time out, she makes a fuss when you kick her" iyswim.

I would have removed DC. Please check that your therapist is qualified in whatever capacity they are working eg couples as their opinion in this scenario is most bizarre.

I assume this is a joke.

Your child kicks you at the table. You remove the child!!!!

Seconded (or thirded). And yes, I’d ditch the therapist too. Has she made you feel judged on other things?

Agree with others that I'd be removing the child and not myself. Once established that the kicking was not an accident I would be losing my shit. There would be no mistaking that a line had been crossed. Sounds like you were very softly softly. "I don't want to be kicked." Opens up possibilities to kicking being ok in some scenarios. "DO NOT EVER KICK ME. WE DO NOT KICK PEOPLE." Job done.

Slightly different scenario, but my nephew was a kicker-under-the-table at around this age. For some reason he picked on me to kick at a family meal - 9 of us there. I really couldn't handle it at all so left the table. What I objected to most was his parents not doing anything to stop him. When on another occasion he repeated the behaviour but kicked his 80 year old grandpa instead, it was me and my DH who made him stop. His parents again didn't intervene and seemed surprised when we did. Now he is 22 and a perfectly nice young man...! No lasting harm done.

There is no one size fits all punishment model, unless you forgot to mention that you were filming an episode of Supernanny.

It may have made more sense to remove yourself, than to disrupt the mealtime, and without being there, I wouldn’t comment.

What I’m curious about is the context, and subtext of your dh’s comments in therapy. I mean I could imagine my dh stepping in to say “no, you should stay at the table” and putting the 3yo in time out, but not just sitting there calmly eating and storing up a ammunition for the next therapy session. I think it’s quite weird.

There’s a reason couples therapy isn’t advised when there is abuse in a marriage, as the therapist can be manipulated into perpetuating the abuse. The best therapists know that they are susceptible to these dynamics; poor therapists believe themselves too wise to be manipulated,

what’s the rest of your relationship like? What brought you to therapy?

This. You shouldn't have to move if he keeps kicking..three is young but they can really push your buttons. You leaving feels like he has got more power than you which is confusing for a 3 year old and a bit of a strange dynamic. I would just firmly remove them from the table for a couple of mins and then continue on with your chat etc. Then can rejoin when the drama is over and says sorry. And move on with the rest of your evening.

next time you switch the child to a seat where they cannot kick you, therapist said that to fit what she believes. Switch therapist asap

Excellent comment.

Your DH is the root of the problem. Your son continued kicking because even though you told him to stop repeatedly, his father kept quiet giving the impression you were not a united front. Which you weren’t. My DP would have stepped straight in after 1 kick because he wouldn’t stand for anyone hurting me or disrespecting me like that , even our child. I’m guessing your son is picking up on his fathers attitude towards you. And then after doing fuck all to help, he had the sack to bring it up against YOU in couples counselling?

Maybe the kid isn’t a fan of sitting at the table though and would prefer to eat elsewhere?

Kids aren't fans of a lot of things, that doesn't mean they should be pandered to.

I voted YABU simply because you should have removed the child from the table for kicking, not removed yourself! Basically what you taught the child was they should physically hurt someone if they don’t want to be near that person. Zero consequences for the child.