WIBU - DC kicking me during meal

[identifiables]

It got brought up in couples therapy that I’d left the dinner table and taken my food to eat in another room.

I explained to the therapist that DC was repeatedly kicking me during the meal and had refused to stop when asked. I had explained that I do not want to be kicked. No one likes being kicked, it hurts. They carried on, I initially moved one seat away but they still managed to kick me so I said I do not want to be kicked, so if you will not stop kicking I will have to leave the table. They didn’t stop so I left the table. DCs Dad was still sitting opposite them at the table, not getting kicked. DC was 3yo, intelligent, no SEN, good comprehension, generally well behaved on the whole. From my perspective I was teaching using natural consequences that if you hurt people they won’t want to be near you.

The therapist said I was wrong to do this, something about rejection or punishing by withdrawal I think and that my child should know I will always be there. Something along those lines.

Was I unreasonable to leave the table? How would you have handled this?

YABU = You should have handled this differently. Please post any suggestions how you would have handled it.
YANBU = You handled this well enough.

You did fine, take it from someone who has come out the other end and has the t-shirt. Anyway, who would have been looking after the 3yr old if they'd been removed from the table and the adults were still eating?

I never once did time outs. My kids are now in their 20s and lovely people.

No consequences for the kid kicking you then? Why not out the kid in time out? Kid should have moved, not you.

I don’t think you leaving was the best solution.
That’s almost giving him the power.

But what the ‘handbook’ says and what we actually do are two completely different things.

None of us do things by the book.
We do whatever we feel is best in that situation and you rightly wanted to be away from it.

This should not have even be brought up in couples therapy as it’s a non issue unless DCs behaviour is regularly violent.

Can I ask why you’re even in couples therapy?

Seriously!?

Therapist is talking a load of shite and could be doing you more harm than good.

I understand the concept of abandonment issues but fgs this isn't it.

I haven't read the whole thread, but you asked a 3 year to stop or you would leave. And they carried on and you left. You framed it wrongly. At three they cannot reason and you tell them to stop and tell them it's not acceptable behaviour by them and it hurts. They stop or leave. Not you! They wouldn't like it if someone kicked them. I don't agree with the therapist's take on it, but you have to be clear of consequences for the child when their behaviour isn't acceptable.

If someone who is smaller than me and who I have authority over was kicking me or hurting me in any other way at the table or anywhere else, it would not be me leaving the table.

Is the child your child as well? Or your stepchild?

This.

Why on earth do you view discipline as purely the Dad's role?

Discipline is the role of BOTH parents. If you give out the message that it is only Dad's role then how will you cope when your child runs rings around you because Dad isn't there?

I personally would have removed my own kicking child from the table and expected support from my DH. If he didn't give it automatically (he would have) then I would have snarked at him to do so.

You need to be a team when disciplining children. You have made yourself sound more like the old fashioned "just wait till your father gets home" type. Don't! It's wishy-washy.

If I had deliberately kicked my Mum she would have slapped my leg and she would have been right.

No way would she have been the one to leave the table.

In your position I would have been more likely to remove the child from the meal. But to do it "properly" you have to announce the consequences in advance. If kicking at meals if a regular problem, you have a rule in advance that if you kick, the meal is over. You remind the child in advance, get them to repeat back that they understand, and the follow through with 100% dedication until they get the rule.

Following that approach, you can only really work on one or two changes at a time so you have to ignore other undesirable behaviour if it's not already part of the rules you agree in advance.

But I think you did a good job in the circumstances. No shouting, not getting angry, showing you have firm boundaries and personal autonomy about what happens to your body. You set a really good example of how to navigate a negative situation.

I would have removed the child and sat them away from me for a few minutes. By you moving they have learnt that they can get time with their dad, alone, by kicking you. They need to learn that they will be sat alone if they misbehave, so that the consequences are negative for them and not for you.

I wouldn’t have moved. I’d have moved the child. Taken his food away and moved him away from the table and told him he could come back and finished his food when he stopped kicking, or I’d have grabbed his feet and told him if he kicked again he would be moved from the table.

If they didn’t stop them they should have been removed from the table not you

I'd have done what you did if I had the presence of mind, because my DC are much worse if they are hungry. It's a reasonable consequence to lose you and your attention.

What does the therapist think you should have done? I would consider changing therapist. Not least because it doesn't seem like what you have asked them to work with you on. Their unsolicited opinion is not actually helpful.

There was nothing wrong with what you did but I would probably have moved their chair away so they couldn’t reach you rather than you move. Or I would have given a time out. So then the consequences are on them rather than on you.

But moving away from a child hurting you is absolutely fine.

Absolutely this. Find a new therapist!!

Nonsense. If you had stayed, it's teaching them that if a bully is pummeling them, they must just sit there and take it ... rather than walk away.

I agree that I would have removed the child rather than myself, but really - wtf is this being brought up in COUPLES therapy? If you were in a ‘how to parent a child’ session, perhaps it’s something that could be constructively discussed and improved upon, but in couples therapy?? It’s one single parenting action in a day of hundreds of parenting actions. Why did DH bring it up?

I'd have moved the child personally... Even if that meant they had to be removed from the meal for a while.
"Okay, if you keep kicking, I'll assume you're not interested in eating, so you can go and sit in your bedroom/the lounge/wherever."

I think what you did was fine. It seems ridiculously over the top of the therapist to say they need to know you will always be there. You only went to the other room and they still had dad there. It's also much easier to move yourself than move your DC. There were 2 or 3 occasions when one of us left the dinner table after one of our DC just wouldn't listen. I don't think it's given them abandonment issues!

Dump the arsehole therapist for a start.
Your husband sounds useless sitting there allowing you to be kicked repeatedly.

Your child would have been very removed in this house and put to sit elsewhere.

I wouldn't tolerate it for a minute.
Bratty behaviour that gets worse not better if not firmly dealt with.

I suppose the message we want to send to our children is that we'll be there for them, no matter what, and we love them no matter how they behave.

But that doesn't mean that we can't have boundaries.

Maybe it's in the way you worded it rather than what you did the therapist had an issue with?

In our house both I have gone to sit in a different room if it's got too much at dinner, or my DC have, depending on the circumstances. We don't do naughty step or time out.

I don’t understand why this has come up in couples therapy. It’s very insignificant, and doesn’t have any bearing on your relationship with your dh, surely? I’m confused.

The therapist said I was wrong to do this, something about rejection or punishing by withdrawal I think and that my child should know I will always be there. Something along those lines.

So fast forward 10 years and you have a 13 year old pushing you around because he’s learned that you’ll always be there and you can’t stop him.

The therapist is drawing on theory around parenting children with disrupted attachments eg kids who are adopted or care experienced. The point there is to focus on relationship rather than behaviour but these are kids with complex needs, and even there I disagree with the therapists approach to violence.

Kids need to know from a very young age that violence isn’t acceptable. My two would have got very short shrift for kicking anyone, much less their parent. I’d have removed them from the table if they’d continued after “stop kicking me”. Three year olds don’t have the cognitive ability to reason why they shouldn’t do X, so I’d not waste my time in the moment explaining what and why. That would come later maybe using a social story to help explain.

What you did in the moment was fine, I’d be questioning why dad wasn’t stepping in to reinforce my instruction if my child continued kicking.