WIBU - DC kicking me during meal

[identifiables]

It got brought up in couples therapy that I’d left the dinner table and taken my food to eat in another room.

I explained to the therapist that DC was repeatedly kicking me during the meal and had refused to stop when asked. I had explained that I do not want to be kicked. No one likes being kicked, it hurts. They carried on, I initially moved one seat away but they still managed to kick me so I said I do not want to be kicked, so if you will not stop kicking I will have to leave the table. They didn’t stop so I left the table. DCs Dad was still sitting opposite them at the table, not getting kicked. DC was 3yo, intelligent, no SEN, good comprehension, generally well behaved on the whole. From my perspective I was teaching using natural consequences that if you hurt people they won’t want to be near you.

The therapist said I was wrong to do this, something about rejection or punishing by withdrawal I think and that my child should know I will always be there. Something along those lines.

Was I unreasonable to leave the table? How would you have handled this?

YABU = You should have handled this differently. Please post any suggestions how you would have handled it.
YANBU = You handled this well enough.

Your husband is a prick. Swerve the couples therapy and divorce the twat.

You should have removed the 3 year old, not moved yourself. That's the consequence of kicking. You don't get to sit at the table with everyone else unless you behave.

I'd have taken up their plate and sent them to their room.

Find a new therapist asap this one has no idea about how to wor why train a child to be a functioning adult and as will be of little help to you.

As its couples therapy its extra worrying as your co-parenting with the man who opted out of managing his child being abusive to you. And the therapist is waffling on about how its OK for you to be abused.

The child is 3 provided the kicking was not to get out of eating at the table
Ask them to stop
Tell them to stop or they will be removed from the table
Dad says the same thing
Optional : Give a final warning and remind them what will happen
Follow through by having Dad remove them.
After the follow through happens Dad gets them to explain why they were removed and say sorry to you.

I would have removed the child.
But I would also expect my Dh to help.

I’d struggle to trust this therapist’s judgement and continue with them.

Thanks all, I’m getting the message clearly that I should have moved DC. It didn’t even occur to me! We have never really done time-outs. I am aware of hunger aggravating bad behaviour so I wouldn’t have thought to stop the meal and leave them hungry. I could take my food elsewhere but they couldn’t safely do that. I realise I also took the easy option where we all got to eat in peace rather than a physical altercation to remove them against their wishes and likely ensuing emotional meltdown meaning no-one would have got dinner, or at least to enjoy it.

Who is a good source on how to do timeouts appropriately?

I think it's odd that you chose to leave the table & eat elsewhere rather than removing the dc tbh.

The child would gave been removed in the first instance.
If during another meal it happens again he would be removed and there would be another consequence added to it.

Thank you. Do you have Dad doing the removal and follow through because he is Dad and discipline is Dads role/he is more physically strong to remove DC, or because he was not being kicked so if he was being kicked it would be for me to do the removal and follow through?

Being hungry is a good motivator to behave then!

In that scenario I don’t think I would have done a formal time out and have them sit in x spot for x minutes- which is usually how it works, sit on a particular chair or the bottom step and 1 minute per year of age is usually said to be appropriate. But kicking at dinner-they’d get 1 warning and then I would have got them down from the table and told them they could return when ready to sit nicely. I would ignore them though and carry on eating my meal and chatting to DH just because I wouldn’t allow them to control things and disrupt the meal, and enforcing a proper time out would require one of us to step away from the table. We have done this a few times for bad behaviour at the table when the kids were 2-3 and I find it’s pretty effective when they realise they’re not getting the attention.

I voted YABU. If my 3 year old did this and wouldn’t stop after repeatedly being asked to, he’d go on the naughty step/time out. He needs to learn consequences - you leaving just means he just gets to keep eating his dinner doing what he likes. He needs to learn there’s a negative consequence for him - naughty step, no stories at bedtime, favourite toy goes in a timeout box - whatever one works best for you/your DC.

Make it about him, not you.

You should both be working as a team, it doesn't matter who does the removing as long as the other parent makes it clear they are supporting the decision. What really matters is the child seeing both parents on the same page.

It shouldn’t matter. You should be doing it equally and backing each other up. In our house it would probably come down to whoever was sat closest.

No - he’s kicking you. You take him out. Otherwise you’re not teaching him to listen to you.

Forget about if dinner is ruined - everyone goes through crazy dinner times in order to teach children the correct behaviour. Dinner stops, he goes on the naughty step. Rinse and repeat until he gets it.

Dad gets involved because dad is also the child’s parent and kicking is not ok.

Parenting isn’t about perfection!

There is no parenting strategy guaranteed to produce perfectly happy and compliant children so stop relying on your daft therapist for a start, as they’re clearly clueless if they actually believe the twaddle they’re pedalling.

My child would have ended up in the bin, so I think you did very well.

You should both be working as a team, it doesn't matter who does the removing as long as the other parent makes it clear they are supporting the decision. What really matters is the child seeing both parents on the same page.
Absolutely
We both backed each h other up with discipline when the kids were young, even if we did t agree we put on a united and discussed it in private later.
I remember one time ds1 was being cocky and gobby( as young teens can be sometimes) at me and my consequence was quite harsh as a knee jerk reaction, I can't remember what it was, maybe grounded for two weeks in the summer holidays or something mad.

Dh backed me but later said ' do you think you were a bit harsh there love.'

What? Why are you tying yourself in knots about this?

You remove him because you are the one being kicked. Dad backs you up on this.

1. Benefit of the doubt that it’s accidental. “Son, you are kicking me and I don’t like that. Please mind your feet and don’t kick other people.” Then carry on chatting and eating.
2. Warning and chance to stop the behaviour. “Oh dear you’re kicking me again, that’s not kind. I’m going to sit over here as you’re being quite silly. If you keep kicking you’ll have to leave the table.” Then carry on chatting and eating.
3. Consequence for obviously intentional bad behaviour. “You’ve just reached over to kick me on purpose. We do not kick. You can come back when you’re ready to be kind to others.”

Then plonk him out of the kitchen. We have a gate on our kitchen door. Let him wail about it. If he was finished eating and just dicking about then let him go off and play and finish eating at the table with your husband. The message is: this is the way we behave at the dinner table.

It’s not a “time out”. I don’t do time outs. It’s a normal consequence. If you are behaving badly at the dinner table, you are not welcome to eat with everyone else. He will show you if/when he’s ready to return to the table. If he goes hungry then maybe his second chance is a bowl of porridge at the table before bed and you can have a chance to restore it together just sitting having a chat over his supper and praise him for not kicking. “This is so nice, we’re enjoying your supper together and chatting with no kicking and people getting upset.” Praise him at every meal for his nice sitting and talk to him about things.

You and your husband sound way out of alignment on this. You need to find serious boundaries and backbones about your son’s behaviour. It doesn’t need to be complicated.

This suggestion is slightly bizarre - Discipline is not a father’s role. It’s down to both parents to raise their child and teach respect. Maybe you and your DH need some parenting classes as you seem to struggle with this subject? I don’t mean that rudely but I don’t understand why you would suggest discipline is a father’s role? If you go down this road then your children won’t respect you. Or women in general.

You deal with the issue and dad backs you up. You work as a team.

A judgey therapist. And one with poor judgement at that, IMO.

Who needs that in their life? I'd suggest an upgrade.

Is it a parenting course or couples therapy. Youre an adult, You're allowed to leave the table whenever you want. You dont even have to have a table.
You are definitely allowed to move away from a child if its kicking you.
Id be a bit concerned that your therapist is being openly unsupportive about your completely neutral and normal non-aggressive parenting, in front of your partner who youre in couples therapy with.
I would be concerned that shes picked a side.

Our littleun is only 16 months so I'm not expert and learning every SINGLE day, but one thing I heard that's been working better for us is that the other parent corrects the behaviour and also does the mending/ demonstrates gentle touch. So if I'm about to be struck in the face by a flying Thomas the Tank Engine, DP will say a firm but calm no, take the offending train away/ hold a swinging arm, and then say something like, 'We are gentle with Mummy' and give me a hug or pat my arm. I spend a lot of time being patted like a dog, and sometimes I get hit and then hugged straight after... BUT, these incidents are passing. It's made us parent better and stop bickering about how to handle behaviour.

I don't get why the therapist didn't use the opportunity to get you working as a team?!

Your therapist sounds shit.

I think I’d have done the same as you, OP – I agree it’s probably better in theory to remove the 3yo, but in practice in the heat of the moment I’d be thinking about the quickest way to just eat my bloody lunch in peace while also ensuring DC gets lunch so they’re less likely to be a shitebag all afternoon.

Also as the 3yo’s goal was attention from you, even negative attention, you removing yourself was still a natural consequence, so I don’t think it was the wrong move at all. I did something similar when DD was 3 and I had a newborn; DD wouldn’t stop touching me during lunch so after several warnings, I took mine away to the only locked room in the house. I got to eat, she learned to listen to my boundaries, everyone behaves fine at the table now, no harm done at all.

Speaking as someone who managed to bring up two boys single handly I think you did the right thing. I found the best way for me was to also remove myself from (safe for them) situations when they were being unreasonable. I would go and lie on my bed with a book or just chill. They would then quietly come up, very contrite and apologetic. All done quietly and calmly. I have two great adults now so I think I did a pretty good job and I would have done exactly as you did.

I’d change my therapist.