AIBU to ask my friend to stop her child pestering people in a restaurant?

[Letsblameitallonperi]

I was meeting up with a friend Zoey today I hadn’t seen for a few weeks, I was really looking forward to seeing her.

We had arranged to have lunch in a proper restaurant (not the usual child friendly places) and I was hoping we could have some wine and adult conversation.
Almost every time I meet up with Zoey she has brought at least one of her two kids and it’s been difficult to talk properly.

It’s frustrating because her husband has even offered to look after them when we meet on a Friday because he has an early finish, Zoey often just laughs and says “oh it’s ok wildhorses likes to spend time with the kids” or something along those lines. Last time her husband could obviously tell I wasn’t impressed and gave me a regretful shrug, he tried pushing it but Zoey ignored him so I know it’s definitely not her husband behind this.

I posted on mumsnet a few months ago and was asked if it was possibly her husband being controlling and making her take the kids or refusing to look after them, I think I can confidently say that’s not the case, the last time he offered he seemed to be frustrated when Zoey turned down his offer and even asked if she didn’t trust him with his own kids, Zoey just laughs and insists I’m happy with the situation.
I was also given advice to suggest just one on one time and say I’d like to see her alone in a more adult environment, I followed this advice and told Zoey I wanted her advice on something I was really struggling with and wanted to talk to her properly as we can never discuss anything when she’s distracted by the kids.

I was surprised she actually agreed and so I wasn’t impressed when I turned up to see she had her daughter with her (it seems to be always her 8 year old daughter Cara she brings) and she said we could have a “girls afternoon”.

I was so pissed off I nearly walked out, I thought I’d been clear and Zoey knows I’m having a really rough time and I just wasn’t up for entertaining her daughter or listening to her many many stories.
I asked where Adam (her husband) was and if he was looking after her other child, Zoey said yes but Cara wanted to come.

It wasn’t a great day, everything we talked about was met with “who is that mum?” “Why did she do that?” “What does that mean?” When I gave up trying to have a conversation Zoey encouraged Cara to tell me all her “news” and I can assure you it was gripping stuff 🤦🏼‍♀️.

I was just going to leave and decided the friendship was over and there was no point having any big discussions or explaining I’d had enough, I realised Zoey just wasn’t interested enough to meet me alone and I wasn’t wasting my free time having “girlie lunches” with a 8 year old.

Just before we left Cara insisted on a pudding and as we were waiting there was a group of 4 women at the next table in their twenties/thirties who looked like they were having a great time laughing and drinking wine.
Cara went over to their table and started talking to them, they were polite but obviously weren’t that happy to be disturbed, after a few minutes one woman said “I think your mummy is waiting for you to go back to your table”
I waited for Zoey to tell her to come back but she waved her hand and said “ohh it’s fine she loves chatting to new people”

Thats when I had finally had enough, I told Zoey that Cara might like it but not everyone wants to be best friends with an 8 year old and that was a polite way for them to tell Cara to fuck off. Cara was out of earshot for that remark but obviously Zoey wasn’t happy, she told me I was an intolerant child - hating bitch who was clearly regretting my choice to not have kids and I was jealous of the bond she has with her daughter.

I’m not proud but I retaliated by saying she was obsessed with Cara and that’s obviously because she wasn’t mature enough to see her friends her own age and that even her husband seemed to think it was odd. I said other friends were absolutely fed up of Cara coming everywhere, sulking when she wasn’t invited to weddings, attempts to bring her on nights out and even spa days, I said she’d made Cara her whole identify and was selfish, boring and I hoped Cara would let her join in at birthday parties and her play dates because her friends were all sick of her.

We didn’t make a scene in the restaurant, it wasn’t shouting or anything, more hissed insults. Cara wasn’t upset and just sat eating her pudding and listening as usual, I’m surprised we didn’t get feedback from her.

In the end I just walked away and I am now cringing at how pathetic it was that two adults in their forties were arguing with a child listening.
I haven’t heard from Zoey and I think I’ll block her, I’ve spoken to another friend who said she knows I’m struggling with a lot and she wasn’t surprised I’d got upset when I’d asked for support from my best friend and been ignored and then made to feel like I was unreasonable for wanting some time with her alone.

The main thing that pissed me off and the reason I posted was the fact Zoey wasn’t just bothered about ruining our day but she would have let Cara stay pestering the women at the next table, it just made me realise how selfish she has become.
I want to know if I was unreasonable for asking Zoey to tell Cara to come away from the other table or if I was just projecting my own annoyance and the women probably didn’t mind that much?
I have had a very difficult few weeks with a bereavement, I’ve just had surgery and I’m having mood swings from perimenopause, I’d appreciate honest opinions if I overreacted or not?

I expect some people will tell me IWBU and it’s normal to love your children and be proud of them, I hope there are a few others though that would have finally had enough and snapped?

As a mother of a beautiful, charming and friendly 8 year old girl, I can categorically tell you YANBU and your friend is batshit.

It's actually really not fair on the kid either.

Everything you said needed saying. The friendship is over.

but the person I feel sorry for is Cara (and her sibling). She is being brought up by an incredibly needy and misguided parent. Through no fault of her own, she’s being encouraged to be an equal adult without the maturity to understand. And had to sit through that awful convo between OP and Zoey. If this convo had been between her two parents, MN would have been up in arms criticising the irresponsibility and abusive act.

You weren't wrong in what you said but I do think it was wrong to say that infront of a child. It isnt her fault that her mum's like that and it must have been awful for her to listen to her mum being called obsessed with her, selfish for bringing her places etc even though its true. I'd have walked out and said that over text or something

When her children grow up and want to be with their own friends she’ll be a lonely woman.

She'll also be an awful MIL, just hope none of your sons ever get together with the woman the daughter will become. Will her Mum come on honeymoon I wonder??

I wasn’t aware of this new trend, but if there is a movement to banish precocious children from nice expensive adult oriented restaurants then I’m all for it!

The child that shouldn’t have been there. The child that the OP expressly asked not to be there as she had a lot going on i.e. she needed an adult conversation.

The OP isn’t a saint, the presence of the 8 year old is on the mother.

Can't find it but basically there was a group spa day booked and after the group were sick of her bringing her daughter to adult meet ups they specifically asked her not to bring the child. She agreed but still turned up with the child, assuming that they'd all babysit for her while she had spa treatments. And iirc went mad when the spa refused to allow her daughter in because she wasn't old enough.

Your friend is definitely in the wrong, but you also come across as a bit obsessed with her.

Luckily I’ve never met anyone like Cara’s mother.

The comment you are jealous of my bond with my daughter because you are childless is so incredibly spiteful.

She’s beyond clueless that a group of women out having fun would want to spend time making small talk with a stranger’s 8 year old.

Ironically, for someone so invested in her relationship with her female child she doesn’t value women.

I can think of one person I know who to me is overly invested in their kids. That person was very unhappy & unfulfilled job wise before having kids so I think she became obsessed with her kids to escape it all.

I've just remembered sn anecdote about a similar person I know. In a restaurant, and it's all adults except of course they brought their kid along.

BUT there was another kid!... Smaller, adorable, getting all the attention from wait staff and patrons (waving, gurgling, showing toys, being given treats etc).. pleasant and natural interaction started by passersby.

And person A was SEETHING. Head literally on a swivel seeing if anyone would acknowledge their own kid. Their son was largely being ignored by random members of the public just trying to get their dinner, though. As....is... Totally normal?!

So I watch in fascinated horror as they up the ante. "you LOVE raw carrots don't you darling?""shall we go see if there's any SUGAR FREE desserts?" In order to parade around at the dessert bar, child on hip, urgently smiling and trying to make eye contact with other diners. Loudly singing nursery rhymes, asking them to point out letters on the specials board, letting them attempt to order theur own food from a glazed-eyed teenage waitress.

Fascinating! I've backed off a lot, maybe she's lost forever in this cyclone of performative validation seeking.

There's definitely two types of people. Ones who will include their kids if necessary but keep them quietly entertained, and also seek kid free time as is healthy to do. And the others, who somehow imply that theirs are more important/beautiful/interesting and must be given every chance to shine, whilst overriding manners and appropriateness.

I don't tolerate it now. The unspoken implications are that other children are lesser support drones to entertain the golden one. Nah 😅😅 Be interesting to see how that first cider binge , secret girlfriend, vape addiction, mars bar addiction or similar event will go 💕😅

Oh dear, has Zoe joined the conversation?

'here’s a mother actually bringing her child along with her simply because she enjoys her child - that little girl will grow up knowing she is loved , valued and prioritised over and above everything . That is the way children should feel rather than mum was too busy hanging out with her friends to spend time with me .'
Nope, children shouldn't feel prioritised over everything, but the fact that some people think they should explains so much. They should also grow up understanding that their parents are entitled to have time to themselves. That's healthy.

Zoey is actually damaging her child but treating her as an adult and sharing adult conversations with her in that manner.

I feel sorry for the child, but I'd also not be spending any more time with her mother.

General comment, children can bring out a competitive streak in parents.

I know people who I never thought of as competitive who became exceptionally competitive when they had kids, but not about achievements it was about how much attention their child received including compared to other children.

God OP stop posting about this woman and her child. Just let her be. Clearly she doesn’t want to meet alone so either slowly fade from this friendship or continue it knowing full well she’s not interesting in meeting without the daughter.

but at this point the amount of threads you’ve made about her is weird. It’s almost like you just want people to pile on and say how weird she is. She’s supposed to be your friend.

I'd be inclined to decline any offers to meet up with 'Zoey' in future.

I remember the spa thread. I feel very sorry for Cara having to hear your argument with Zoe, but that is entirely Zoe’s fault not yours. You’ve tried really hard to get through to Zoe and she’s completely ignored it. I think it’s time to give up and walk away.

For what it’s worth, eight is not a difficult age, the behaviour you describe from Cara is not typical of an eight year old and is likely due to her mother over indulging her all the time.

I am a parent and when meeting with friends it was always clear whether this was with or without children. If I had no childcare, I wouldn't dream of not explaining this before meeting up. In the case of the venue being a smart restaurant, I'd 100% NOT have turned up with a child in tow. We'd have either postponed or adjusted our arrangements.

Hopefully, in the next few years, the child will be allowed to make her own friendships and become independent. In the meantime, just stick to keeping in touch online and focus on other friends.

It’s missing the point that the child has another parent who is capable of & willing to look after her. She wasn’t being left with a babysitter (not that babysitters are a bad thing).

Children particularly by the age of 8 need to understand that they are not the centre of the universe. Otherwise they risk growing into adults who think the are the centre of the universe.

Im glad my children are aware that I have friends. Friends are a very important part of life, it’s good for them go understand that & in turn value their own friends.

i would never let my children infringe in other people in a restaurant. Those people are there to enjoy their own meal not provide free entertainment for my child. It’s basic manners, decency & respect.

It's this one:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5295103-for-telling-my-friend-she-was-ridiculous-to-bring-a-7-year-old-for-a-spa-day

Oh dear. This is incredibly short sighted behaviour on Zoey's part.

Firstly, treating your 8 year old like a mini adult, involving them in adult days out and adult conversations, is not good for the child. They won't thank you for it in the long run.

Secondly, children grow up and leave home. Your job as a parent is to give them the confidence to one day make a life separate from yours. When Cara leaves home or goes to university in probably only 10 short years, Zoey is going to really regret not keeping her adult friendships.

YABU because you chose to criticise a friend in a public place and in the presence of a young child.
YANBU to prefer to meet up child free though. You have gone about this in completely the wrong way.

Do you talk like you write - ie. 100 words when 10 would do? It strikes me that "Zoey" doesn't fancy the intensity of a lunch devoted to you and your big problems. She knows that you don't like it when she brings her child along - so she brought her this time to ensure that you got really pissed off and walked away from the friendship, meaning that she doesn't have to do the hard work of calling it a day. She has quite skilfully left that to you.

I remember a classmate who just couldn't resist shouting out her every opinion and talking over teachers. I always wondered if her DM had taken a similar approach as Zoey with some idea of boosting her confidence whilst actually making her into a really arrogant and irritating personality.

Nice try, Zoey

Yes!

Most mothers are glad to have a bit of time away from their kids occasionally, with adult company and talk.

You are well out of that one.