Bit of a situation with widowed dad from school… need advice

[Donaldfo]

Hi all,
Bit of a long one and honestly not sure what I’m after really.

So I’ve been seeing this widowed dad from my youngest’s school. Started off just chatting at pick up, then a coffee, then it sort of turned into a thing. He lost his wife a couple years back, proper lovely guy, really good dad to his two boys. We’ve been seeing each other a couple months, nothing serious serious, but nice.

Anyway, here’s the thing – I’ve just found out I’m pregnant.

I was on the pill and we were using condoms (bar one time – classic) so it’s a bit of a shock. I’ve taken two tests and both positive.

Haven’t told him yet. Was going to say something this weekend when we’ve got a bit of time together. I’m not expecting him to throw confetti or anything but I don’t think he’ll freak out either.

I’ve got two kids already (from a previous ex – all calm there), and wasn’t planning on another. But I don’t feel panicked like I thought I would? Probably cos I actually like him and I don’t feel like I’m on my own with it, even though I’ve not told him yet.

Just wondering what others would do in this situation. Do I go in with all the options laid out or just say it and see what he says?

I know people might have views about the widowed dad thing but we’ve both been adults about it, no drama. Just not what I expected to be dealing with today.

Any thoughts appreciated x

And if i died tomorrow and my partner got someone else pregnant I would want that woman to do what was best for her. In fact id probably turn in my grave at the thought of my babies half sibling being terminated based on a load of vipers on mumsnet looking into their magical crystal balls and telling the woman exactly how things will pan out for the worst.

Being allowed to move on and bring another child until another marriage in a careful way is miles away from an accidental pregnancy eight weeks into a still-casual thing while still wearing your wedding ring and so on.

I think his reaction was as good as you could have possibly hoped for. He was respectful of you, the accident, and your right to choose. He sounds wonderful that way.

He also sounds in no way ready for this or wanting this.

You are not, it is clear, deeply morally opposed to abortion, or we wouldn't be having this thread.

Essentially, you seem to think this hiccup during sex is an accidental and therefore morally allowed shortcut to firmly position yourself in this new imaginary life that you'd like with him. It isn't baby trapping, of course not, but it is using an oopsie to force a hand that on my opinion really really shouldn't be forced for the sake of everyone and all the kids involved.

I don't understand how you can't see why that's selfish.

I think @zezet nails it.

He seems a decent man, one who will do the right thing and support his child if you go ahead. But I think he'll remain full of regret for having a relationship with you. His reaction indicates that.

No one is advocating forced termination ffs.

The OP is already a mother to 2 children and her absolute number 1 priority should be to do what is in their best interests.

Having a baby with a classmates dad who they don’t even know other than as a random kids father, thereby inflicting a man and 3 new siblings on them in a very short space of time would not be acting in her own children’s best interests. That’s before you consider that they’re probably still processing their own family split, one of them has special needs, the 2 other boys have gone through a traumatic bereavement and their new dad didn’t even want this in the first place.

There’s a substantial difference between a couple of years and 3.5. Hope your job doesn’t depend on accuracy sweetheart.

I thought pro choice was exactly that - supporting a womans own choice, no matter the circumstance. Some people seem to think you have to justify an abortion by having the exact circumstances that make one 'allowable' (you don't) and posters on this thread seem to think you have to justify keeping a pregnancy by having the exact right circumstances for that too! You don't!

Her body, her choice.

Advice I would give is don't look to move in together any time soon, if this relationship survives. Give the kids time to process and adjust. They may actually be excited about a new sibling. 3.5 years to a 7 year old is an extremely long time. They have lost their mother, yes, but to them it will no longer feel recent in the same way it does for an adult.

We constantly hear on threads where someone wants to leave their husband how kids are adaptable and can cope with changes. That's true now too.

There are people on this thread telling her she MUST get a termination. That is pretty close no?
And also based upon your assessment of the situation you've come to the conclusion that it would be a disaster for them all when realistically you have no way of knowing that.

Absolutely this. I think most so called accidental pregnancies are as a result deliberate and inconsistent use of contraceptives usually when a relationship is rocky or when a bloke is seen as a good catch.

Exactly. I know children in blended family situations who absolutely dote on their new sibling.
And fwiw conversely, there's plenty of children in stable, secure perfect Mumsnet ideal relationship scenarios who react with utter jealousy and devastation upon being given a new sibling.

The OP has said she has wanted a 3rd baby for ages, lo and behold she's pregnant against all odds.
Sod the 4 existing kids involved in this absolute mess, eh?
Chats at the gate mean nowt, it's been 8 weeks, I have food in my fridge older than that.
Too many people on here say 'ooh a baby, congratulations' as if nothing else matters. Sometimes women have to be practical and think beyond their own selfish wants.

Firmly pro choice means that no-one can force a woman to an abortion, which is a very very VERY important principle we should all fight for and not take for granted.

It is a necessary emergency brake to make sure abusive partners can't coerce people, to make sure women's bodies aren't violated without their knowledge and consent, to make sure casual partners cannot overthrow deeply held moral beliefs.

It doesn't mean you can't be judge for what you do! It means that judgement can't be enforced on a woman's body. It doesn't mean it can't be a shitty idea.

And in a case where it's clear the woman doesn't have deeply held or principled objections to abortion, where there was a clear shared commitment to contraception, where you have a grieving family and a man who hasn't even taken off his wedding ring, a kid with special needs, and an accident, of course it's fine to say using an oopsie to force about a future faked version of life that no-one wanted but you, is selfish as hell.

Glad for her she has the right to self-determination! I wouldn't want to force her or anyone to an abortion.

Doesn't mean I don't think, or can't say, she is being morally ambiguous (dodgy) as well as deluded.

This ^

The oldest child is 10. There are 2 x 7 year old who are good friends. I think it could work. But how about we let Op and her partner decide seeing as it is their lives.
I think that it is okay for widows and widowers to remarry and have children. 3 years on is not really that quick. They took things slowly and have known each other for years.
Not sure what all the drama is. A new baby could be a really positive thing to bring everyone together.

I think the fact that he wanted you to do a pregnancy test in front of him shows how he truly feels about you. Some posters expressed concerns that he might not believe this was truly an accident on your part. He’s taken it a step further than that and actually doubted you were pregnant at all. Doesn’t scream trust to me, not that I’m judging him, how far can two people trust one another after mere weeks of casually sleeping together? At best, he really wanted there to be some sort of mistake with the test, at worst, he thought you’d actually go to the lengths of making up a pregnancy to further the ‘relationship’.

If she was putting her existing children first she wouldn’t risk it.

Theyve been together a matter of weeks and were using contraception. Which makes sense because no one in their right minds would plan a baby like this.

But the point is its done now, and if she doesn't want a termination, then she doesn't have one. It is as simple as that.
As pp said she does not have to justify keeping her pregnancy to anybody.
That is what pro choice is.
Anything less is tantamount to forced termination, people trying to psychologically blackmail her into one.
Babies are born into all kinds of fucked up situations. No one knows how her or the fathers children would react.

It’s the children I feel sorry for. This is a massive life changer for all of them.

I think most everyone here thinks it's okay for widowers to move on.

But there is no indication at all he has even thought about, let alone wanted to, "move on" with the OP! It's not that babies can't bring people together, it's that there's no indication he wants to be brought together, even less so that it would have to be with OP.

There's MANY a person I would have been willing to have discrete protected sex with for eight weeks, that I sure as hell wouldn't have wanted a kid or a life with. Even less so if it fucked with the kids I or they already had.

Children don't accept difficult new circumstances, they just tolerate them. This "children are adaptable" nonsense is something adults tell themselves when they choose to upend their world. I mean, they don't die from most selfish adult choices, and they will adapt in the sense that anyone adapts to things that make their life more difficult - but it doesn't mean they will ever be happy about it.

What children will adapt means is children are powerless and forced to tolerate bad adult decisions. Bad adult decisions don't improve over time, but children learn to shut up about their unhappiness because they have no choice, or get angrier and angrier over time.

I suppose there might be the very odd rare case where kids actually are pleased to share their lives with strangers and half siblings, anything is possible.

Being forced to share resources and time with strangers is very unpleasant and upsetting to adults, let alone powerless children. I have never seen it work out well in the real world, and I have known four blended families who had the best of intentions.

Honestly, on this site it's apparently child abuse to raise your voice to a kid because they will be traumatised for life but by then when you turn around you're being told they will adapt to their whole world being upended forever because - well, because it suits some people to believe so.

The saddest tale I ever heard about kids and sharing their parents was from a man I used to work with, a really nice kind man called John. He and his wife had fostered two teenagers while his own kids were teenagers. The fostered teens were not violent or badly behaved, but of course they had needs as all children do, particularly ones who have been lost their parents.

John and Viv did this with the best of intentions, they truly thought it was the right thing to do. When his son and daughter were in their 20s his own children informed John and Viv that they had thoroughly detested every single second of being forced to share their love and their home and their resources with children they didn't want to know and weren't related to.

They resented it deeply, and possibly forever, I haven't seen John in a decade, so who knows how it all panned out, but they had been holding on to their anger and resentment for years.

John was so shocked by this news, as his kids had always tolerated the circumstances with good manners and decency and appeared to "adapt".

He was in his 50s when they told him and he came in to work one day upset and told a couple of us who got along well with him. He stated that he wished he had not fostered the other kids, because he permanently damaged his own relationship with his own children by forcing them to share love and resources without outsiders.

Now, no matter how much anyone reading this feels the need to launch into a lecture about the sainted angels of foster care and how society needs them - this is a true story and one I am telling here in the hope that the OP will realise that it's not just her kids' lives she is going to make more difficult and less happy.

I'm aware that fostering and blending is different but for John's kids the outcome was the same - actually better since they at least didn't have to put up with strange adults in the mix with power over them as blended kids do.

They won't forget that the OP chose to inflict another family on them. The OPs kids are utterly powerless and there is no plus side for them to this arrangement the OP is planning.

I remember years ago reading a parenting book that explained it quite well. Imagine your husband came home and told you that he'd found you a friend, a companion, a lovely woman to share your chores with and chat to, and she was going to be his second wife. Don't worry darling, you'll get used to sharing, you'll adapt, in the end it wil be the best thing, you'll see.

That's how most kids feel when they're told they have to share their home and lives and resources with usurpers. Many of them lie about it to placate their parents because they are afraid of the repercussions. Some act out. None are happier when forced to share with strangers they didn't choose, though yes many will tolerate it without too much fuss.

Blended families are about the parents not wanting to be alone - in the OPs case she has snagged a good un and wants to hang on to him.

Ok, that's her choice. But don't think it's going to be a fairy tale ending.

And I couldn't read another pointless "kids are adaptable" platitude without responding to that realistically.

OP neither you or your boyfriend have mentioned any feelings of love for each other in this relationship. He sounds nice and you also sound lovely and you are both clearly kind and thoughtful to each other, but to me it's coming across as a gentle friendship with sex, not a deep 'in love' relationship. He wears his wedding ring, he still feels married on some level. A baby with a woman who is not his wife, is a massive thing - on some level it will feel like a betrayal of her and he sounds frigghtened of telling his wife's family. What they think of him is clearly a big deal and that was one of his earliest thoughts when you told him.
I agree with a pp that he's not ready - he's not really free emotionally to be in this situation with you.

So if you are inclined to keep this pregnancy ( and it's absolutely your right, regardless of his situation) then my advice is to do it on the premise that at some point you'll be doing it alone. He might not be the brilliant father to your baby that he is to his boys.

I feel for you, the timing totally sucks. Remember that you deserve a relationship where a man is fully 'in', a man who loves you fully. As nice as this man is, he might not be that man. A baby with him will tie you, if this wasn't meant to be a permanent relationship. It will tie him too, if he's as nice as you think. But you both need to want each other, as partners.
idk, I'm waffling but I do think there should be love and not just comfort/convenience/friendship.

Don’t move in together - yet go have a baby with a widowed man who still wears his wedding ring- has young kids who don’t even know about the relationship infact no one knows about it because it’s 8 weeks old.

I think having a BABY is abit more bonkers than moving in! This guy wanted a casual happy sex and friendship - maybe a girlfriend - not a fucking new mother of his kids and a new baby. He’s getting off Scot free here- he is 50% of the issue- he should never have gotten into this mess - and what a fucking mess. I admire the optimism of some saying oh lovely a baby! You can all be a happy family but this is one serious situation to play fire games with- maybe it will
miraculously work out and you’ll all be one big happy family but also maybe and more likely it’ll end the fun you’ve had for eight weeks and fuck a load of kids up even more than they are from their mum dying - I know it’s harsh reality but it is more probable

I am taking the general consensus as being the usual school of fish who follow on from the first response. It's one thing to say you'd have a termination in this situation, it's another to berate the OP as selfish for considering having the baby.

But there is, added in, a whole level of one hopes unconscious projection - because god forbid their husband move on with another woman if they were to die, and god forbid any widower ever put his own needs ahead of his children.

It's a Hallmark movie level of sentimentalism very divorced from what happens with 98% of widowers in the real world.

@Boddica2000
I remember years ago reading a parenting book that explained it quite well. Imagine your husband came home and told you that he'd found you a friend, a companion, a lovely woman to share your chores with and chat to, and she was going to be his second wife. Don't worry darling, you'll get used to sharing, you'll adapt, in the end it wil be the best thing, you'll see.That's how most kids feel when they're told they have to share their home and lives and resources with usurpers. Many of them lie about it to placate their parents because they are afraid of the repercussions. Some act out. None are happier when forced to share with strangers they didn't choose, though yes many will tolerate it without too much fuss.You could literally apply those exact same paragraphs to an only child being told they are getting a sibling. A full one from married parents.

To be honest that sounds a bit bonkers. I would be delighted if my husband found new love when I die, though I am hoping it won't be for a long while yet. I have not read a single response that would indicate that was even a thought in anyone's mind, except yours.