I hate anti-vaxxers

[An89]

How can anyone in this day and age be an anti-vaxxer? London and West mids currently suffering from a meassls outbreak. DS is under 1 so cannot yet have vaccine, I know of someone whose 10momth old contracted measels as they were too young for vaccine.
Ridiculous that reckless and tardy parents are putting all our children at risk. Actually terrible.

But they put others at risk of harm too
Like smoking
Its vile

I haven't seen any posts on here that are hateful, other than from anti-vaxxers. And you have explained yourself only too well, but posters are rightly taking issue with your explanation.

I am 'full of resentment' actually. You explain your credentials here for being a good parent by describing the love & care you lavish on your children (all half decent parents do that btw, you don't need to explain to us how children bounce back from illnesses as if we wouldn't otherwise know - though sadly, occasionally they don't).

Despite claiming to be a good parent you are failing at the most basic level of care by not getting them vaccinated, despite the fact that you seem to have no medical advice or recommendation for doing this and despite the fact that you presumably received these vaccines yourself as a child. So you are denying your own children the protection you yourself enjoy, and you are relying on the rest of us to protect your children through getting them vaccinated.

So now you accuse the OP of trolling her own thread, with a personal insult thrown in?

There is no point arguing with posters like these is there? They don't have any valid arguments, all they have is repeating themselves, personal insults or flouncing off the thread.

For what it is worth I am not aware that there is a single credible case where a vaccine has been proven to have caused a child's death - proven, not presumed or accused of having caused it. Correct me if I am wrong though; like most reasonably intelligent people I accept I can sometimes be wrong, unlike terminally stupid people who are utterly convinced they are always right.

There is a difference between an opinion and a mere notion; a few posters on here can't tell the difference. I support vaccination of children - including my own, vulnerable, child - based on the expert medical info and advice available and the statistics showing the success of vaccines in reducing disease, as well as the historical and anecdotal evidence that confirms these.

I can see that the lives of children who have been harmed by vaccines don’t seem to matter much or be acknowledged in this thread. Some children do die or suffer severe, life-altering reactions from vaccines — this is a fact.
Although these cases are often dismissed as a minimal fraction, for a mother who loses her child, it is not minimal.
Stop hating mothers who choose not to vaccinate.
Vaccinate your kids and they’ll be fine. Be vigilant and protect those who can’t yet be vaccinated due to age or medical reasons, until they can receive their shots and stop this pro vax bully culture.

The poster had a bad experience with vaccines and her child still hasn't recovered from the sounds of her post. We all make decisions based on life experiences. My children were fully vaccinated but I won't get myself all bothered about someone else's choices.

💯

I had to research, erm I mean Google randomly (unlike anti-vaxxers who “research” everything so carefully and scientifically on YouTube 😬) what Dunning Kruger Syndrome is and oh my good god that is most definitely a Thing and one that I see every day! Thank you for introducing me to that. It’s brilliant.

@sleepwouldbenice true. But smoking is not permitted within public areas and you would hope parents are not exposing their family to first or second hand smoke. There are ways of vastly reducing this that I know they are taught when having a child. My point is that we don’t segregate care given or access to public services based upon self inflicted or family inflicted causes. I would rather though have no unvaccinated child around mine in nursery/school/gp waiting room etc. More so than a smoker but still how can you do for one but not another?

Are you an expert on Dunning Kruger now?

World leading expert. Planning on starting a consultancy business based on my extensive knowledge.

And the more you know about something, the more you know that you don't know.

I have a good science background and medical background - but I know that the more I know about immunology, the more I don't know - as that was not my area of expertise. People who have spent years in immunology are the people who I trust to have the expert knowledge.

And being an expert immunologist does not make someone an expert in say cancer. As an expert immunologist would tell you.

I am truly sorry that her child has suffered, but I am afraid that I am bothered about other people's choices when they directly put my and other people's children at risk. I should not judge her as a person, but I do judge those choices.

BTW regarding life experiences: my DS was born premature and disabled, if had caught a preventable disease (eg by an unvaccinated person visiting the neonatal unit) he would certainly have died being an extremely vulnerable baby. As mentioned above he was born at the height of the MMR scandal and we were very worried about the risk to him and discussed potentially safer ways of doing it.

But there was still no question of him receiving it. I did actually think about the risks to others as well as him if he wasn't vaccinated - not to boast, as I think it is completely normal to care about others as well as yourself & your own loved ones. So decisions are not made based solely on one's own life experiences.

Which is why people from one area of medicine/science are careful when they interpret papers from other areas of medicine/science. Because you need to know what you don’t know before you start.

Which bit. I’ve said lots of things. Most of it is probably settled science among experts in that field.

I think it’s clear they don’t give a shit.

So forget immunocompromised kids then? The mothers who watch their kids go through chemo and then lose them to whooping cough or measles because the tiny chance of having an adverse reaction outweighed the fairly large chance of catching a communicable disease in someone else's tiny mind, they don't matter I suppose?

Or are they supposed to live in a bubble?

Call ahead when they have to visit the hospital to check that no idiot has suddenly changed their mind about trusting the NHS and taken their sick child to infect everyone else in A & E?

Not going to get dragged back into this but I just wanted to point out if you’re having chemo, you’re told to not have contact with anyone who’s recently had MMR or any live vaccine because they SHED. Someone recently vaccinated could pass on measles and end uo passing it no differently to someone unvaccinated who had the wild strain (although as I said, in recent outbreaks it’s been the vaccine strain that is circulating).

The chance of getting an illness from shedding is incredibly rare, unlike when the wild disease is rampant, but somehow it is seen as much more dangerous, really doesnt make sense.

Yes they bloody are when they are putting others at risk.

They are if they increase the chance of your own child getting severely ill or dying.

They are my concern when they affect my children.
I had to make the decision on whether to risk vaccinating, knowing that a high temperature could put him in to a life threatening status seizure or risk him getting measles etc. (This was at the height of the autism conspiracy stuff).
He ended up having to stay in hospital for 24hrs after the vaccinations

My DS had his first febrile seizure within weeks of his MMR. He went on to have over 25 right up to the age of 13. It was obvious that it wasnt caused by MMR as my DSIS and DM and even my DGM had abnormal history of Febrile Seizures , we now know my family have milder form of GEFS+.
Back in the late 60s when my DSIS had FS neither she nor I were allowed to have the measles vaccine in the catch up programme. We both caught measles , i was really ill for a couple of weeks. Measles ruins the immune system for upto 3 years and i was very ill with chronic tonsilitis over the next two years with weeks off school, i eventually had my tonsils out.

You surely can’t be claiming that measles outbreaks are being caused by the vaccines?

I can see that the lives of children who have been harmed by vaccines don’t seem to matter much or be acknowledged in this thread.

Of course they matter! None of us want anyone to lose their child or for a child to be harmed - that's the whole point of vaccinating.

Some children do die or suffer severe, life-altering reactions from vaccines — this is a fact.
Although these cases are often dismissed as a minimal fraction, for a mother who loses her child, it is not minimal.

Undeniable. But the fact that it's a minimal fraction is important. All medicines have potential side effects and dangers. And we are a society. None of us live entirely independently of each other. None of our decisions are made in a bubble.

Stop hating mothers who choose not to vaccinate.**

Not hating. Judging.

Vaccinate your kids and they’ll be fine.

Not true. As I posted earlier, my fully-immunised dc caught mumps in a preventable mini-epidemic. I also know a teenager who had measles as a healthy 6yp, and became T1 diabetic 6 weeks later. He, too, was fully immunised.

I don't hate the parents who chose not to vaccinate their children, despite the harm their choices did to my dc, but I certainly judge them.

Be vigilant and protect those who can’t yet be vaccinated due to age or medical reasons, until they can receive their shots and stop this pro vax bully culture.

Vigilant! How? People with viral illnesses are highly infectious before they show symptoms! Or do you propose we bring back quarantine for all their siblings and contacts?