Lily Allen ‘can’t remember’ how many abortions she’s had

[blossoming56]

Article in the Fail today about this.
I am pro choice but it did make me a bit uncomfortable. After a while a string of abortions - too many to remember - would surely leave its mark physically and emotionally not mention the cost on the NHS.
Everyone should have a choice but is there not an element of personal responsibility to just take precautions after the first few times?!

It’s not ending their lives. They aren’t having a life. It’s stopping their lives from beginning in the first place. It’s prioritising the life of the person who already exists over a potentiality.

If you’re going to pretend a zygote is a human being, why not gametes?

Not only that, but acknowledging the tough and challenging life a kid would have if born to a woman (a) traumatised by being forced to carry and give birth and (b) who had decided they weren’t capable of having a child. Multiplied by the 4 or 5 abortions under debate. Because “rights in utero”.

Such as hypocrites. Plenty of the 'self-righteous' holier-than-thou preachy types only really want power and could not care less about what's morally right.
Yes, for those, this verse fits like hand in glove.

Women should be allowed as many abortions as necessary.

What? An abortion debate? In 2025? FML. This place truly is full of pond scum.

@WaitedBlankey if it’s not a life, just a bunch of cells, only becomes a being when born alive, why do people, including LA, get upset about stillbirths? It’s only a bunch of cells after all, just something that can be flushed down the toilet as one poster said. At what point does that change? Or by telling ourselves it’s just a bunch of cells make having an abortion easier. I’m not against abortions but I don’t think they are something you should joke about and certainly something you should try and avoid ie using contraception

Polly Vernon in Times mag today saying she has had three abortions. We can move to reviling her.

Because it's potential. And how people react to that potential is subjective and varied.

As I said in an earlier post, it becomes "a baby" to the pregnant woman when she has an emotional connection to it. For many cultures that was when the fetus "quickens" i.e. when we can feel it move. That was pretty common throughout history in Europe at least.

For some people it's as soon as they know they are pregnant, and so an early miscarriage is distressing. I'm not one of those so could be fairly phlegmatic about my miscarriages. A good job I was, as it turned out.

For others it might be when a baby would be viable if born early (around 28 weeks). For still others it's birth.

But until birth it is not a person, it is not a life, it is something that could go on to become a person and have a life.
A seed isn't a tree. I am upset at the destruction of mature trees but I'm not too bothered about a handful of acorns.

She would not be getting the same response for the same issue

Why on earth can’t women joke about abortion? Or be lighthearted or forgetful or unfazed by it? There’s a real undercurrent on the thread (I mean, in addition to the out-and-out anti-choice chat) of “well, I SUPPOSE I won’t begrudge you your abortion, but only if you wear a hairshirt and self-flagellate about it”. It can be a traumatic, complex or memorable experience for some, but it’s just as valid for it to be a big nothing, a thing you had to have done that faded from memory.

You can't on the one hand assert "Not your body, not your business" and on the other ask "What about the men?"

I can only think the babies are better off that way than being born to a mother not able, willing or responsible enough to care for them

LAs stillborn child was of 6 months gestation and she had to give birth to him. Medical abortion is taking some pills to remove a tiny clump of cells. It's fairly simple to see why she might view those things differently.

How you perceive the potential life depends on whether it is planned for and wanted, or not. That should be basic and obvious.

And I hope you realise that not all abortions are due to actual carelessness with contraception. Contraceptives fail. I know three people who had unplanned pregnancies but were using double contraception - the pill as well as condoms. Life is like that.

Joking about abortion in the media is certainly in bad taste, but the abortions themselves are a woman's inaliable right.

Shame on those who want to force women to carry to term, by the way. Abortion, especially early abortion, is an order of magnitude safer than pregnancy and birth. Aside from the emotional distress and the man (as always) walking away without consequences, there's also the pain of birth, birth injuries and birth trauma. You folk who want to do this to women should reflect on why you want to punish women for having and enjoying sex - but not men.

But if it is a matter of perception, whether a pregnancy is viewed as one that is more than a bunch of cells (and I assume LA had different perceptions for different pregnancies) then doesn’t that go against the argument for a number of posters on here who say you can’t be ‘pro life but’ as your perception may be different for different pregnancies

Lily was not alone in revealing this - Miquita also admitted to several abortions & that she may have lost count of too. I think context is relevant here - it was as part of their podcast where they are refreshingly honest & candid about many aspects to do with being a woman, & speak out against misogyny & taboos. Lily for eg is very honest about how she often regrets becoming a mother, how she finds parenting difficult, yet all the while unconditionally loves her DC. If you understand the context of these women’s comments & view them within the frame of the chaotic, troubled early & later lives they both experienced, their multiple pregnancies & terminations may make more sense. Both have suffered enduring mental & emotional health problems (Lily more so perhaps) alcohol & drug dependency, & horrific trauma. Not to mention the impact of early fame within the predatory music & entertainment world. Are they just revealing an ugly truth society would prefer not to be revealed? I would imagine far more women who have been in similar positions may equally have had several terminations. That doesn’t make it right. Or wrong per se. But I actually think they’re quite brave to own it or express it. Yes joking about it makes it seem trite but it’s clear their humour is defensive & masking a degree of pain & or shame about it, that they don’t want to feel. Miquita even says “no blame no shame”. Yes it would be perhaps more constructive for the conversation to continue & to hear their reflections on these experiences & the kind of sex they were engaging in where contraception was not able to be used effectively. Or maybe on some occasions it was?? Given the degree to the chaos of their drug & alcohol use it’s perhaps commendable they both at least did the responsible thing & ensured no pregnancies did happen. Yet society would be less outraged if they just churned out loads of kids with different dads when they weren’t emotionally or physically capable of looking after & nurturing multiple children?

No, because a lot of people who are 'pro life' are not just 'pro life' for themselves (as in, they would never have an abortion) but would also like to deny other women that choice. And that is where the problem lies. Don't like abortion? Don't have one. And keep your snoot out of other women's lives.

Yes. Her womb, her decision.

Exactly. It is a ridiculous and harmful notion that you can ‘instruct’ a woman to carry anything in her body that she does not want - much less the two decades of raising a child with all of the financial, emotional and physical demands place almost always solely on the woman, because in this society at least a man can just bloody check out indefinitely!!

The comment is regarding the fact that she finds her termination amusing. I'm baffled how terminations are funny in any way.

I don’t believe a word of it. Disgusting insinuation really. Poor taste. Where is the evidence?

Why is is a bad thing to laugh at the things you've been through?

For plenty of women a termination isn't traumatic or contentious. It's a practical and sensible choice. Take a couple of pills and move on with your life; possibly laugh at your useless younger self now that you've learnt more.

Full body autonomy all the way.

Do you think you’re projecting your own views on to Lily though? I can understand that for many women and couples who really want a baby and/or are facing fertility issues how her decisions and way that she spoke about it may cause upset, but it really is up to Lily what she wishes to do.

@WaitedBlankey and for plenty of women it isn’t. And from the sounds of it her life at the time was putting herself into quite vulnerable positions.