Lily Allen ‘can’t remember’ how many abortions she’s had

[blossoming56]

Article in the Fail today about this.
I am pro choice but it did make me a bit uncomfortable. After a while a string of abortions - too many to remember - would surely leave its mark physically and emotionally not mention the cost on the NHS.
Everyone should have a choice but is there not an element of personal responsibility to just take precautions after the first few times?!

As previously discussed, of course prevention in the form of reliable contraception, used properly, is preferable. However, you (and many other posters) don't seem to understand that there are massive psychosocial barriers to that for vulnerable women with complex lives, often facing MH issues, addiction, housing insecurity, relationship problems, domestic violence, coercion. Healthcare providers cannot sterilise or administer LARC to vulnerable women at high risk of unplanned pregnancy against their will. We have this thing called informed consent.

So do you also oppose contraception - where the egg is fertilised but can’t implant?

I mean every month a potential ‘baby’ doesn’t happen because a woman stops it

but taking a pill at 4/5 weeks 4 or 5 times is feckless? Why?

In the normal course of things any woman presenting with a history of multiple abortion would be investigated and hopefully helped to make better choices.

Depends on how many times you rely on it to stop unwanted pregnancy, having consented to unprotected sex despite not wanting to be pregnant.

Or just given access to abortion without a lecture

Why exactly is this though? If you genuinely are pro choice and see abortion as a safe and appropriate healthcare option for women?

In my circumstances for instance- I cannot tolerate hormonal contraception at all- and I know because I've been through them all by this point. So that leaves me with condoms as a means of contraception. Now add in an issue with alcohol. Or an abusive partner who refuses to use condoms. Or perhaps I have a learning disability and I'm vulnerable without enough good support around me.

Can you see why I might end up pregnant and needing multiple abortions? Women in this situation shouldn't be judged and demonised especially since we don't judge men for having sex without condoms at the best of times never mind when they've complex needs. Such a double standard.

This thread has blown up and obviously haven’t read all the replies. Valid points on both sides and I’ll reiterate this being about judging LA personally.

I do think MN can be a weird place as I’m almost certain that if a regular poster cropped up and posted something along the lines of ‘I’m considering my 5th abortion, actually it could be more I can’t really remember’ they would have their arse handed to them. People generally are very proactive here about safe sex and protecting oneself.

Im glad we live in a country where abortion is available to those who need it. I am pro choice. But I do also think there has to be an element of women taking repeatability where able and not being so nonchalant about something that can have ongoing implications for their health and wellbeing.

No, they wouldn't be "investigated". They would be assessed, just like any other patient or service user attended for abortion care. The assessment is not intended to cross examine the woman's moral fibre, it is to determine whether she has any safeguarding needs, as well as a medical assessment to satisfy the Abortion Act criteria.

What health implications are their for an abortion?

how do they compare to the medical implications of birth?

There

"But I do also think there has to be an element of women taking repeatability where able "

This is the issue - no one but the woman herself will know the details of her circumstances. So it's totally wrong to judge. How many women hide a functioning addiction for years or an abusive relationship for years before it comes out? You can't decide which women are vulnerable and which aren't without making abortion less accessible. LA was sectioned not long after one of her abortions, does that sound like someone who's in a stable place and able to make perfect decisions? Or to raise a child? Thank God she had the means to get the support she needed to terminate rather than having to go through a pregnancy while very unwell.

Taking accountability for what? Where are the men taking accountability for their effing sperm and where they left it?

I’m pro-choice BUT…

No. Not how that works. If you’re pro-choice ghat means even when the choice may Feel unpalatable to you, or even if you think it’s wrong. Pro-choice means it’s her body and her choice. Always.

That’s a complete dodge, though. Contraception is irrelevant once you’re pregnant. So what’s the upper “No. abortions per person” limit, then? Some posters have made up 11 abortions, so is 10 OK per woman? Maybe we can give some of our unused abortions to women who need them once we’ve hit meno, they’re going spare.

But not liking the choice doesn’t mean that they don’t think she should have that choice. I think most people think that she should have been able to make that decision but still judge her for putting herself in the position where that a decision she’s had to make.

Open their legs and rely on abortion? You think they should have a baby instead?

BTW, your misogyny is showing.

I don’t think everything is black and white. There can be nuances in people’s opinions.

Timothy 3:1-7 -
Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

@Rosscameasdoody Then I guess you’re one of those posters I find irritating.

So only those who attempted to use contraception should get a choice? Or those who didn’t realise contraception isn’t always 100%? Or those who were drunk, or who took a risk just once? Or just twice?

This is why I don’t pretend to be pro-choice. It would make me a hypocrite.

So many judgy pro-choice posters on MN

I could understand the judginess towards LA if it was illegal to have 5 abortions in a lifetime, but it isn’t.

OP are you overweight? Do you smoke? Do you drink? Do you ever ride in a car? Do you have children? Do you fail to exercise regularly? Those common, and very acceptable choices cost the NHS money too.

It’s none of your damn business that she has had a legal medical procedure. If you didn’t want feedback on your opinions, you shouldn’t posted on a public forum.

For the record if you want to proudly call yourself pro choice, think about what that really means. You are saying you believe women have the right to choose whether to continue a pregnancy. Full stop. Not women have the right to choose to terminate 1 or 2 pregnancies but that they hold that right, irrespective of how they got to that point or what happened before.

Pro Choice BUT, insert judgy comment of your choice, people really piss me off.

Nope. Not misogyny to expect women to take responsibility for contraception if they don’t want to be pregnant. Have you seen what’s happening in the USA ? MN is making a case for it to happen here.

'Open your legs'?

Have I fallen through a rabbithole into Andrew Tate's blog?

Pro choicer here. A big one.

Lily Allen is a has-been and is trying her hardest to stay relevant. There’s been a theme lately, with Kate Nash screaming about everyone from Rod Stewart to JK Rowling, while singing songs from her heyday in the late noughties. Her “natter” with fellow forgotten celeb Miquita Oliver was a perfect opportunity to say “hi, I’m here!” She really doesn’t care how she courts the press, but does.

What saddens me about this is the fact that she was rich and famous and had access to healthcare (as rightly she should), and yet the pregnancies kept coming. For a woman who is pro-choice she has played a blinder for the anti-choice brigade, by reminding everyone that us silly women cannot be trusted with our own bodies and decisions.

Yes, women will have multiple abortions for multiple reasons, good reasons. You only need to remember the abandoned babies in London that are believed to be from the same mother. We don’t know what horrendous trauma this woman has went through/is going through. For some woman, multiple abortions and associated trauma are their reality and they are light years away from Ms Allen’s lived experience. They deserve nothing but love and kindness, however her recent revelation just makes things worse for those who don’t have her privilege. She is pathetic.

Nope. If you find the language unacceptable scroll past. Women are responsible for their own bodies and have choice. I’m pro choice. But I recognise when choice becomes a feckless reliance on abortion as a form of contraception.

This. Sums it up perfectly.