Lily Allen ‘can’t remember’ how many abortions she’s had

[blossoming56]

Article in the Fail today about this.
I am pro choice but it did make me a bit uncomfortable. After a while a string of abortions - too many to remember - would surely leave its mark physically and emotionally not mention the cost on the NHS.
Everyone should have a choice but is there not an element of personal responsibility to just take precautions after the first few times?!

It was started to incite a bitchfest though.

What’s a woman’s quota then?

Lily Allen has been in the business for a long time. I'm sure she was aware this would be talked about when she shared it with the media.

I saw it on Instagram as a trailer for their regular Podcast which was on the subject of contraception. Am I ‘allowed’ to have thoughts and opinions on it - because I didn’t read it in the Daily Mail? Admittedly when it hit the Daily Mail (as I knew it would and that I knew she would get absolutely crucified for) it had garnered 3k + comments - most of which were horrifically sexist and misogynistic.

This is Mumsnet - it is perfectly acceptable to have a discussion about it. Lily herself would accept nothing less.

Yes, young and unsupported, controlled, coerced, riddled with anxiety, struggling with mental health or addictions, afraid, unwell... Lots of potential reasons for her to 'not remember'
I presume a kept diary of these events is preferable for the body police.
'off her head' is really a horrible way to talk about someone with addiction issues.

Why isn’t a choice to be taken lightly? For some women it might be the absolute right choice with no angst or regrets- others might feel differently.

it is an inconsequential choice - what are the consequences for anyone else if I have 1 or 100 terminations

Limiting the number comes from a place of judgement and morality - ie women should feel shame, women should take blame , women should regret it, if they don’t well we’ll stop you having any more? Who does that help?

"Wouldn’t having those babies have cost the NHS more?"

Words fail me

No one seems to mind if women take the morning after pill multiple times (it can stop a fertilized egg from implanting)
No one seems to mind when someone uses IVF and discards viable embryos when their family is complete
Also, a lot of people have very little to say about actual babies dying in war torn countries

It's fascinating reading posts like this, and wondering to myself if the person who wrote it genuinely doesn't understand the post she's responding to - or just pretends not to. I suspect the former...

Eta: it would make for far more satisfying reading to see the issues raised fully apprehended and responded to substantively

Catholics to tend to have feelings about those things....

Would it be consequential if you had committed neonatal infanticide 100 times? If so, why? Out of interest.

I think it’s rather grim. Contraception exists for a reason. Accidents happen, but my God, if she’s forgotten the number of abortions then she’s taking a very slap dash approach to her life. Obviously wasn’t brought up to be responsible. What a waste of money and peoples time.

It's reminiscient of that episode of Bojack Horseman where the dolphin pop star pretended to have had an abortion and made a song about it.

Exactly. I have had an abortion once, very early, I was about 9 or 10 weeks I think. But I had to go into hospital as a day patient. You couldn't just pop a pill to induce it at home in those days. It was not a traumatic or difficult decision for me, and the abortion itself was not traumatic either. I was sedated and don't remember a thing about it.

The thought of having to have a baby I wasn't ready for with a man who wasn't right for me was far more traumatic than having an abortion. That said, it still messed me up hormonally for weeks afterwards and I was a bit of a mess for a while. Why anyone would prefer to repeatedly go through that than simply get some decent BC is a mystery to me.

Absolutely no way in hell was I ever going to let that happen again if I could possibly help it. I never played fast and loose with contraception again. I gave myself a break over that one time, although honestly, it was my fault. I was reckless. But I knew having access to abortion services was a privilege many women were denied and I shouldn't abuse it or take it for granted.

When I was in the waiting room with all the other women in the clinic that day, one very loud woman laughing about how it was her third abortion that year. I remember feeling nothing but disgust and contempt for her. There could have been women there awaiting a termination that was emotionally painful and difficult for them to have, letting go of babies they would have loved to keep if circumstances had been different and life had been easier.

I'm probably referring to most posters on this thread. A thread about IVF embryos wouldn't cause this much excitement. It's not different though, if the issue truly is potential life. But I feel like the issue is about women-bashing.

I don't believe abortion is a moral issue, simple as that. And there are plenty of lifestyle choices that end up needing treatment. So it's not my concern any more than a smoker needing cancer treatment.

It's not 'ok, you can only have it if you're suitably sad and ashamed about it, take a good hard look at yourself and do better in future, otherwise you will be punished with a baby you didn't want.'

You're not unreasonable @blossoming56 . A public figure has spoken in the public media about this and we are discussing it.

Those who don't like it have the option of avoiding the thread.

And in all your infinite wisdom you thought “perfect place for such a discussion is AIBU”

Sure OP, you were up for a measured balanced discussion

Personally I'd call it an infuriating story rather than a sad one.

'The friend' has been a TV broadcaster for over 20 years.

Would you be Ok with being shamed for things you did decades ago?

I very much doubt it.

The internal misogyny is running strong on Mumsnet today.

Katie Price is, all the time

What does it matter? Her body her choice, I'm at awe someone even asked her about the number of abortions she had. It's no one's business.

"not mention the cost on the NHS"

OP.... The average baby being born and living an entire 80+year life costs the NHS a LOT more money than an abortion.

Ending a life isn't treatment though. Medicine original was about restoring natural "healthy" function when something goes wrong. Nothing pathological/unhealthy about pregnancy - this is entirely normal, therefore it's strange to consider ending it "treatment" - treating what exactly? They're not sick..

What do "lifestyle choices" have to do with anything?

Is neonatal infanticide a moral issue? Just out of interest... I'm curious, humour me

I had a number of abortions// missed miscarriages due to fetal abnormalities (probably due to my or husband’s genetics or de novo mutations). I tried to forget about the details of my long journey now that I finally had children. No, I didn’t even try specifically, I simply forgot. If you were to ask me now how many abortions or missed miscarriages I had, I’d have to maybe even look in my records. We forget these details, our brain probably protects us this way. Perhaps Lily Allen did too.