For refusing to change a 6 year old?

[Bernie6678]

So I’m 20 years old, at uni and working as a TA. I want to be a KS2 teacher. This is my first year working with children, I have no past experience, no children of my own etc. Posting here to get opinions from mums.

Anyway I’ve recently been moved from the year 5 classroom (which I loved) to year 1 and there’s multiple children who wet themselves and one of them actually poos himself quite regularly. No SEN. I understand the odd accident but this is happening a few times a week…
I’ve said I don’t feel comfortable changing children as this isn’t in my contract or job description and I’ve had no intimate care training. (Personally for minimum wage I’d rather not be dealing with poo and changing children).
I also think when a child wets themselves at this age they should be capable of going and changing themselves. We have lots of spare clothes and baby wipes here.

I’ve refused so the teacher or another TA changes the children.

Apparently the teacher has now complained about me because she’s having to do it when her previous TA would do it no questions asked. Previous TA has now had to go off on sick leave.

AIBU? They’re 6 years old?!

OP this is exactly why I am not a primary school teacher. I love kids, it’s a profession that I gave serious consideration to and when I see the amazing job that the teachers have done with my DC I often still wish I had gone down that route but I couldn’t deal with pee/poo/vomit and where there are young kids there is pee/poo/vomit so it’s not for me and I suspect it isn’t really for you either.

YANBU. Absolute lazy parents. They should be called out of work to do it. Oh hang on, I bet they don’t work….Schools are there to educate, not babysit/change nappies.

A 6 year old who has been on school for 2 to 3 years regularly soiling themselves has a medical, emotional or SEN condition. They would have trained themselves if everything was normal. They may not have been diagnosed yet.
It's part of a TAs job to change or assist children, I don't think unions say teachers have to, but you do.

stick to your guns @Bernie6678
they may add it to future contract and may agree to training but you should not be doing aspects of the job you are uncomfortable with.
be it a medical issue or sen, is not for you to decide, however assisting the child to clean up by calling the parent, calling the appropriate staff or getting the spare clothing are things that would be helpful.
women in caring roles (nurses teachers etc) are often bullied and pressured to take on tasks that are NOT specified in the role. doing these extra tasks has not helped either profession.

There will be no training for this as it is absolutely not part of a teacher or TAs job

Yes I think so, perhaps they wouldn’t keep doing it

Even if SEN, OP is not there to clean up after poo!

”These days” ?? What has changed? I’m 35. When I was at school, I never knew this to happen. Genuinely curious why it should be expected, these days?

Do the school have an intimate care policy? You and they should be following that.

Working with kids, especially young ones, you really need to be prepared to deal with poo, wee & sick at times. I’m a social worker and if I was out with a child and they had an accident then I’d absolutely clean them up - it would be negligent not to. But I’ve worked in many social care roles where intimate care is needed and also have 2 young kids myself so am not bothered by doing this at all.

As a parent, I was called into my daughter’s school a couple of times when she was younger to clean & change her and I had no issue doing so as I was at home. Not as easy if the parents are out at work some distance away.

DS has SEN and personal care is in his EHCP although it’s not very frequent. It’s usually the same TA that supports him if he needs help.

I think at 6 it can be hard to know the root cause of the issue and so many medical conditions and SEN aren’t diagnosed at that stage. But whatever the cause the children still need to be kept clean and somebody has to do it.

Well exactly I was Dementia care nurse for years I wssent exactly thrilled at having deliver personal care to patients, but to not do so would have been neglect
Young children have toilet accidents it's always happened but they don't deserve to be neglected.

It is not automatically in a TAs contract to change children.

When the guidelines came in it was optional and then many schools included it in new contracts but not all. Some staff do not mind doing it.

Schools are required to cover all bases regardless of cost.

You can talk a child through changing themselves without contact. Direct them to wet wipes and provide a change of clothes. Put items into bags and send them home. You can contact parents and advise them of the situation and that the child is clean or needs a shower but you can not force them to come in.
Generally the parent is happy to come in and either shower the child if too young to do it themselves or take them home.

I really feel for you.
My daughter is 16 and I remember TAs were becoming quite scarce when she reached KS2, and it was parents who were volunteering with reading and extra support, but they're limited in what they can provide.

We had a year 5 teacher who cried every day, then just disappeared. She had too many balls to juggle and felt really guilty that she couldn't teach the children who just needed educating, so the whole thing overwhelmed her. That class then had three teachers sharing the job after she left, because they couldn't recruit anyone.

This just isn't sustainable at all.

@Jamesblonde2Even if SEN, OP is not there to clean up after poo!

So we just leave them in soiled underwear then??

Sometimes medical issues are late diagnosed. My just turned 6 year old wasn't potty trained for poos until after 4. We went back and back to gp so many times as she got so constipated her bottom bled, they just gave her laxatives and told her to drink more as already had a very healthy diet. So she was scared of going to toilet as hurt so much so was late to potty train. But we did it with many many tears, much bribery. Turned out she was coeliac, but it took 3 years of going back and forth to gp for her to be diagnosed.

But when I thought we weren't going to get there, I did teach her how to change her pull ups herself, clean herself. And then when she was having accidents, how to change her knickers. I wouldn't have expected a teacher to do that for her.

Schools cannot require a member of staff to perform intimate care for a child. Teachers, TA's or office staff, they have the right to say no. Check that with the unions anyone who doesn't believe that. Different if a TA has been employed specifically to support that child.

The parents are neglectful in the first place

YANBU. The exploitation of women’s labour is insane. You shouldn’t have to change shitty nappies.

Jesus H. No, you are not trained or paid or contracted to change children and just doing it to keep the peace wouldn’t help anyone in the short or long term. I’d agree the parents need to be contacted for an explanation and /or social services called. That poor, poor child going through life like that. Heartbreaking.

When my son had a bad accident at school I came and picked him up and took him home straight in the bath!

I think some posters have confused role and responsibility.

It might not be in the OP or the teacher's job description or role to change children who have had an accident, but it is their responsibility purely by virtue of being the responsible adults caring for young children who need help. It doesn't matter what "roles" the school have assigned or how they have delegated duties.

It happened but waaaaaaaay less often. In a class of 25-30 it would be once or twice a term maximum.

Then they need to call the parents to collect them asap.

It’s not fair to co-opt young women into work that is not part of their job description.

Having seen a news report on elderly prisoners having to have care workers go into do personal care because the wardens of the prisons have said "not in my job description" im guessing no.

If your job involves caring for young children, you need to care for young children.

YABU about the changing but it should be in the job description and you should have been given training.

Most if not all jobs have some unpleasant tasks included. I used to work with children up to age 8 and children are leaky creatures. Yes it's not fun but working with primary school children means you often have to deal with wee, poo, blood, snot, vomit etc.