For refusing to change a 6 year old?

[Bernie6678]

So I’m 20 years old, at uni and working as a TA. I want to be a KS2 teacher. This is my first year working with children, I have no past experience, no children of my own etc. Posting here to get opinions from mums.

Anyway I’ve recently been moved from the year 5 classroom (which I loved) to year 1 and there’s multiple children who wet themselves and one of them actually poos himself quite regularly. No SEN. I understand the odd accident but this is happening a few times a week…
I’ve said I don’t feel comfortable changing children as this isn’t in my contract or job description and I’ve had no intimate care training. (Personally for minimum wage I’d rather not be dealing with poo and changing children).
I also think when a child wets themselves at this age they should be capable of going and changing themselves. We have lots of spare clothes and baby wipes here.

I’ve refused so the teacher or another TA changes the children.

Apparently the teacher has now complained about me because she’s having to do it when her previous TA would do it no questions asked. Previous TA has now had to go off on sick leave.

AIBU? They’re 6 years old?!

What is your attempt to have the last word adding exactly?
As it is, I'm not popping anywhere, just not acknowledging your repeatedly asking the same question and not liking any of the answers. 🫣
Other posters, who work in schools or in recruitment, agree that OP cannot be forced to clean up poop!

It's the parents job not teachers or TA's.

It isn’t. Earlier in the thread I posted the link to the statutory guidance explicitly stating schools should not require parents to go in to change DC. I also mentioned the legislation that covers it.

Still not the burden of the TA, much as you've pushed it to be. 😵‍💫

Still waiting to hear where you think disabled children should go?

You haven't given an answer. If I missed it, maybe you could detail it again, it's definitely something I'd love to know.

Unless you mean where you said people who weren't there should do it. Is that what you mean?

Or the mythical 'someone else'?

Or the wonderful situation where 6-year-olds can all do it themselves because you said so?

Yeah, you're right: those were inspired 🫣

Why is lack of disabled/SEN provision the burden of the TA exactly?

An invited meeting to discuss his intimate care plan isn't me pushing it at all, it's working with the school to be sure that my son's needs are met when he is there because he's just as entitled to an education as the next child.

He has to be changed when he's at school and he can't do it himself so someone has to do it for him. That isn't his fault and he shouldn't miss out on his education due to that.

I don’t know what you were trying to say with your comment. That was the policy. A man would also not be involved in the intimate care of a female, but women could provide it for both sexes. Like it or not, over 97% of sexual predators are men. That’s why the policy existed.

I've said it isn't but that doesn't mean disabled children should not be in mainstream. There has to be mainstream provision for children with disabilities that include toileting or do you actually believe we should return to the days when disabled people were hidden away from the general population?

Do you have experience of a disabled child yourself? I do and I know many more. I know a child, now adult, who cannot talk but was toilet trained well within the normal parameters. It may take longer and require more patience but you have to be consistent. It is not unreasonable to at least try to toilet train a developmentally delayed child around their third birthday. It is more likely to take a few weeks/months than days/weeks but most will get there in the end. I think a large part of the problem is that far too many people these days want instant gratification in every area of their lives and give up far too easily if they don't see immediate results. Toilet training requires patience and not reverting to nappies when the child has a few accidents. In any case, there should not be the huge numbers of children arriving at school in nappies, even if they are only just four. Do you have an explanation for why this might be?

Teaching assistant.

Not teacher's assistant.

For a reason.

Of course I do and you say yourself it takes longer but not just a few weeks or months, it can take years longer.

I do.

Disabled child is a very broad term, it doesn't always mean development delays and/or learning disabilities for a start.

Physical disabilities are also a thing, as are bowel conditions which can be severe and permanent.

My son's bowel issue is permanent. All of the patience in the world isn't going to magically make it work as it should.

Profound autism, Down's Syndrome, Global Developmental Delay. Of course I am not saying that all children with significant special needs are able to be toilet trained but we are not doing them any favours by not at least trying.

Forcing a parent into school is breaking the equality act. It is not an option, unless parents agree.

Not to mention that the parents in that person's account sound as if they will be actively impeding the child's development, whereas I trust my school staff to develop the child's independence so that he will soon be able to change himself after an accident and they won't need to provide care. The majority of children who have a toileting accident at are school are given their clothes and sent to get changed independently. No adult support needed except to ensure the wet clothes are appropriately bagged by the child and to home with them.

I have said we would sort out and accidents because we would. It would be illegal to do otherwise, and it will teach the child how to be independent.

Behind the scenes, I would be meeting with parents and they would leave with certainty that their decision to put a child back in nappies was neglectful, and that if it was repeated they would be referred to social care under the category of neglect.

@Kirbert2, obviously there are exceptions and I am sympathetic towards you and your son and of course he needs all the help that is available. However, l am guessing that he has a rare/serious condition. The huge rise of children arriving at school in nappies is a concern because they can't all have specific disabilities or developmental challenges.

Most with those type of disabilities are late to toilet train ,many will be in a special school.

They probably don't all have disabilities or developmental challenges but at 4 when they are just starting school, it can be impossible to tell which is why we can't discriminate against children starting school in nappies because it would potentially mean children not able to start school due to their disability.

Places in special schools do not exist for these children, and recieving an education is their absolute human right. Their right to an education outweighs the school's preference not to put this task explicitly onto the TA job description. Once they have done that, OP is at liberty to resign.

But the government current direction of travel is to force more and more children with more profound needs into mainstream. There is also rumour about the sen tribunal being stoppped so parents will no longer have right to appeal against an unsuitable placement. In my la already more and more non verbal and incontinent disabled children are having namestream named.

Yes, most of them will be in a special school. I have worked in a special school but it is not inevitable that they will be that much later than any other child and toilet training is actively encouraged. I find it amazing that so many educated people with obviously bright children are not even starting toilet training until the child is at least three, all too often four, which means that they are being babied and held back. When my children were small in the nineties, around two for a girl and 2 ½ for a boy were the usual ages that children achieved daytime dryness and were clean. It really was only children who were disabled or had developmental delays who were still in nappies by their third birthday.

and for children like my son who doesn't have severe autism or global developmental delay or any learning disabilities will never be accepted into special school anyway because mainstream suits their needs with support.

In my LA all four special schools have doubled in capacity over the past ten years I know this as my son attends one.

Ooh they start later on the continent so perhaps under 5 is too early for some dc?

I get what you're saying, but I don't get how that burden falls to a TA.