For refusing to change a 6 year old?

[Bernie6678]

So I’m 20 years old, at uni and working as a TA. I want to be a KS2 teacher. This is my first year working with children, I have no past experience, no children of my own etc. Posting here to get opinions from mums.

Anyway I’ve recently been moved from the year 5 classroom (which I loved) to year 1 and there’s multiple children who wet themselves and one of them actually poos himself quite regularly. No SEN. I understand the odd accident but this is happening a few times a week…
I’ve said I don’t feel comfortable changing children as this isn’t in my contract or job description and I’ve had no intimate care training. (Personally for minimum wage I’d rather not be dealing with poo and changing children).
I also think when a child wets themselves at this age they should be capable of going and changing themselves. We have lots of spare clothes and baby wipes here.

I’ve refused so the teacher or another TA changes the children.

Apparently the teacher has now complained about me because she’s having to do it when her previous TA would do it no questions asked. Previous TA has now had to go off on sick leave.

AIBU? They’re 6 years old?!

It’s not illegal or discrimination. Should be the law for children to be toilet trained. Parents should come in to the school and change their child.

At that point the TA would be wise to seek alternative employment.
Why should anyone be forced to clean up poo?

The problem will eventually sort itself out as there won't be anyone who will do the job, well very few. Schools and governments will need to decide would they rather cleaners or teachers.

Parents who are neglecting their children as some of these cases show, absolutely need to be held to account. As far as I was aware, child neglect and abuse was a crime

Never known bladder or bowel problems too be treated as an emergency except for dip test or feeling abdomen. It takes time to get referrals and support.

Not potty training a child by 6 isn't a crime. Whatever else it is, it isn't a crime.

Not changing them when they are dirty is.

Well it should be, it's neglect. Someone has it the wrong way around 🤨

Totally agree

it is not on

if your dc was sick the welfare used to call you and you had to come in and collect your dc. I think this is is similar.

Obviously give the dc wipes and clean clothes but the TAs shouldn’t have to go in the loo with the dc unless they have been employed to work with an EHCP dc and it is stated on their plan.

I think having to clean up poo is a step too far in mainstream

hopefully it would be a one off and it would incentivise the parent and dc not to let In happen again.

It really is simple, you send the child into the loo with a plastic carrier, tell them,” Take off your dirty pants and shorts, put them in the bag. Now dear here’s some wet wipes, wipe your botty and hands . Now put on these clean ones and wash your hands with soap.” A six year old can follow instructions and be directed to clean themselves.

It's far easier and cheaper to get a kid toilet trained than buying and changing pull ups and wet wipes, emptying and cleaning potties, running a washing machine, (extra electricity and laundry costs) cleaning off soiled clothes, bathing a soiled kid , having extra clothing as you need to change them.

It's lazy thinking to presume it's just lazy parenting in all cases.

referrals to enuresis clinic doesn't happen easily. You'll be told by your health visitor that it is normal for a three year old to be still incontinent. These kids are often in school nursery, and only a few months off school Reception if young in year. That doesn't leave much time to sort anything out before school if there is a medical issue.

See the Eric website for more information about incontinence.

I work in specialist recruitment services - we employ personal care staff, all on min wage. So think you’ll find it is your pay grade.

And “that’s not in my job description” is one of the most work shy things I’ve ever heard.

Most job descriptions nowadays say something along the lines of “and any other request deemed reasonable by your line manager.” So again, doing as you’re asked usually is in your job description.

agreed people who think it's lazy parenting have clearly never had to change the nappies of an older child.

The bottom line is that, while there a child has a diagnosed medical need or not is irrelevant.

If it happens, it needs to he dealt with.

The problem is that there aren't enough staff in school to facilitate it practically or within safeguarding remits. That's why it impacts so severely on staff and other pupils.

People do need training. Not on how to change a child but on how to do it safely to protect both themselves and the child. And on what exactly they are required to do in specific situations with specific children.

In some cases, it would be appropriate and necessary to call parents and in others not. Some schools have showers/wet rooms, others don't and it takes time to secure funding and to have the work done.

Ultimately, we need more staff.

Even if it was lawful to refuse a mainstream education based on toileting, and it isn’t, DC and their families can’t win, someone will be along soon saying the state shouldn’t be funding specialist provision or EOTAS/EOTIS for so many DC because it costs too much.

They will certainly send a child to wash their face if required. Send them to blow their nose etc.

Older, experienced teachers knew to take children to the toilet as part of the day and send the ones that need to go more often. The curriculum changed. It became more scripted. There's more pressure. Teachers were encouraged not to allow kids to go during class time which can lead to mistakes.

Good grief the amount of ignorance on this thread is mind boggling.

Some posters honestly think that putting a (potentially) bright, well-behaved, social child who struggles with continence issues into a special school or think that it will be enough to entitle them to a 1-1 support assistant are frankly living in a dream world and show absolutely zero understanding of the state the SEN system is in generally.

Secondly, continence issues are not “an Emergancy” and won’t get sorted promptly after a single visit to the doctor. There can be many different causes, it takes time, patience and a lot of sitting on waiting lists to find a workable solution.

Finally, as PP have said having a six year old soiling themselves regularly and/or wearing pull ups is by far the harder and more expensive option than having them just use a toilet. So those people saying that it’s all down to lazy parents and that parents and children will soon pull their socks up if they’re humiliated and inconvenienced for long enough…no, that really won’t happen. It’ll just make everybody miserable and frustrated.

I was a TA for many years a long time ago now and didn't need training in changing a child who'd had an accident so if you don't want to do it then don't but don't pretend it's because you need to be trained in what to do.

When i was a teacher in year 1 i had a child in my class who suffered with chronic constipation and therefore sometimes accidents were frequent. Me and my amazing TA mucked in together to make sure that child was clean and comfortable because that's what you do. We only called her mum if she'd run out of spares. I think when you do become a teacher you should probably stay in KS2, doesn't sound like you're suited to little ones.

This. You are quite within your rights to refuse.

Because they've chosen to work with small children?

Kids can be in school aged a year and a half younger than when they took children the term after they were 5.

Head teachers used to refuse to have children who weren't toilet trained.

More mothers stayed at home longer and we're available to change kids being a ten minute walk from school.

There's a little girl in my daughter's class (reception) who is still in nappies, she has no SEN but has developed an actual phobia of going to the toilet due to severe constipation. She has a twin who was potty trained at 2 so there's an actual example of how the parents aren't just lazy. Her mum is regularly upset about it and desperate for her daughter to be potty trained but it just isn't happening and the school are very unsupportive and have often not changed her all day leaving her in a sodden pull up. It's a horrible situation all round.

I’d be taking her out. Leaving her in a wet nappy and doing absolutely nothing about it all day is disgraceful.

With some bowel issues, that can still happen.

My son doesn't absorb food as well as he should, without the medication he's on, food would literally go right through him. It's improved with medication but means he goes more frequently than normal.

Yep.

This is my son. He is bowel incontinent and physically disabled, now he has a EHCP due to his physical disability but there's no way a specialist school would take him.

Other than his bowel issue and his physical disability, he is your average 9 year old boy. He is sociable, well behaved and loves learning.

They've chosen to assist teaching young children, not to become a carer. 🫣