For refusing to change a 6 year old?

[Bernie6678]

So I’m 20 years old, at uni and working as a TA. I want to be a KS2 teacher. This is my first year working with children, I have no past experience, no children of my own etc. Posting here to get opinions from mums.

Anyway I’ve recently been moved from the year 5 classroom (which I loved) to year 1 and there’s multiple children who wet themselves and one of them actually poos himself quite regularly. No SEN. I understand the odd accident but this is happening a few times a week…
I’ve said I don’t feel comfortable changing children as this isn’t in my contract or job description and I’ve had no intimate care training. (Personally for minimum wage I’d rather not be dealing with poo and changing children).
I also think when a child wets themselves at this age they should be capable of going and changing themselves. We have lots of spare clothes and baby wipes here.

I’ve refused so the teacher or another TA changes the children.

Apparently the teacher has now complained about me because she’s having to do it when her previous TA would do it no questions asked. Previous TA has now had to go off on sick leave.

AIBU? They’re 6 years old?!

And this from someone with experience in the matter. If schools stopped allowing this, the numbers would drastically reduce.

I was once a waitress in cocktail bar, on occasion I had to scrub the loos. It wasn’t my job, but I did it. Do you have another job lined up OP? TA isn’t exactly a busting career path to riches.

Scrubbing the loo is not comparable to providing personal care.

Good for you OP to be confident and assertive enough at your young age to put boundaries in place and stick to them. This strength of character will stand you in good stead in the future.

The parents should be called to the school to change the child. Every single time. It’s not the teacher’s job either.

Then who does it? The parents aren't there. Everyone is refusing because it's 'not their job'.

You can't say no one is saying leave the kid in shit at the same time as saying only people who physically aren't there should clean it up.

Your feelings are valid; your logic is flawed.

They can't call parents to do this. They should have staffed trained to deal with such issues.

This strength of character will stand you in good stead in the future.

Hopefully it will get her fired or prosecuted. Fingers crossed...

Agree that they have no shame at times. It’s not just on the subject of toileting. It’s across the board.

5 year olds having general anaesthetic because their teeth are so decayed that they need 10+ extractions, children going to school in dirty clothing daily, failure to wash the child, forgetting to give them breakfast, kids being unable to recognise a single vegetable.

It’s appalling at times. And it must be deliberate.

Exactly.

Calling a parent in to do it means leaving a child in their own shit.

A parent or guardian needs to arrange to get there, especially if they know this is a regular occurrence.

So does poo just magically disappear inbetween it happening and their parent getting to school? No, in which case they'll be sat in it.

What now?
Someone should be fired for not doing something they've not been trained to do?
How ridiculous.

Well, then the different terminology is the problem here. In my experience, the learning support assistant supports the learner with learning (ensuring the child stays on task, dealing with IEPs, etc) and may be specifically employed to support a child’s SEND or medical needs which MAY include personal care, while the teaching assistant supports the teacher with teaching (taking differentiated groups, running interventions, etc) and should not be expected to deal with a child’s intimate needs beyond handing out clean clothes and a plastic bag. By 6, the vast majority of children should be able to undress themselves, put their clothes in a bag, wipe themselves, dress themselves, flush the toilet and wash their hands.

The law has changed based on this article and it was in force from January 2025? Parents have to go in to change their child’s nappies. So I don’t get what the fuss is about?

www.netmums.com/child/parents-forced-to-go-into-school-to-change-their-childs-nappies-from-today

@bluebigclouds

The notion that 5 years old is a "young age" and therefore accidents are inevitable is absurd. Most children are potty trained multiple years before they attend school.

From personal experience I can tell you that it was very rare for any child at our school (the children had to be potty trained when they attended at age 3: for the first year it was a half day of school and then it was a full day from the age of 4) to have an accident - certainly not a poop accident!!

PP 💯 kids might have the occasional pee accident at 5, but it would be rare. Comments like yours highlight this as you think 5 is young! Most kids are potty trained around 2 years, mine was 2.5 and then we had the occasional accident for about a year after. It's not surprising if a child is having accidents at 5, if they're only learning at age 4 (which from everything I've read is too old anyway). I think the reason so many parents on here are shocked by some of thse comments is that we have the experience of our kids, and our kids friends and so to think of children still not being toilet trained by the time they start school is well ... lazy 🤷🏼‍♀️

What on earth must the other children think?! That's absolutely ridiculous! A child at that age who can't control their bowels needs medical assistance. If they can control their bowels but are not doing so because they've never had to then that's quite different.

The notion that there are multiple children in one mainstream school who cannot control their bowels because they've not been potty trained seems to be remarkably odd. If the child otherwise has no SEN requirements and is in a nappy because their parents haven't bothered to potty train them, then the child should not be in school until the parents have done the work and potty trained them. It's not a school or teacher's job to do the work that a parent should have done. And other children should not have their educations interrupted because their teachers are having to deal with literal crap (plus, it's disgusting for the other children to be in a classroom where a child that age has crapped themselves!). Again: this comment is NOT related to any child with SEN issues - only those who have the distinct misfortune of having parents who can't be bothered to parent.

How can parents go into school if, for instance, they are working full time some way away, or if they have smaller children to look after? It's highly unlikely the school wants a parent bringing in a crying baby and/or a toddler who the parents can't look after properly because they're dealing with their older child. If the child is incontinent due to disability, the school has to make reasonable adjustments to deal with that. As for your suggestion that the child should be kept at home till toilet trained, what do you suggest should then happen in relation to their statutory right to full time education? And what if they have a disability which means it may take them years to become toilet trained, or that they will never be toilet trained at all?

It is depressing indeed, but generalising that kids have accidents is not really what the OP is expressing. Kids come first and I can't imagine a school that wouldn't make sure the child gets changed or cleans up but there is a huge conversation to be had as to why this is so prevalent and then addressing what is behind the child having repeated problems. In my view referrals to local authorities should be automatic and addressed as a welfare concern and referral to a GP. The OP is not talking just about accidents and soiling at 6 is not an accident there is a reason which needs to be documented. It's not to do with accute incidents with normal explanations

Haha, that’s not very kind is it? 🐍

Why don’t we prosecute the neglectful parents leaving others to clean shit off of their children instead? Criminalise them and get them on social work radar. Fingers crossed…

Exactly, so as the parent you'll need to find a solution. I'm sure if you were charged a cleaning fee for each incident then you'd be able to find a way to sort things out one way or another

That was a new policy in one area of Wales, rather than a change in law. Excludes those with medical needs or SEN and can be subject to challenge.

The risk element can be catered for by having two people present. The school cannot just leave the child sitting in his dirt.

Not sure on this one, if it’s part of the job, it’s part of the job.
what do the school policies say?
Can you be trained to deliver personal care?
Who is looking after the class if teacher changing child?
To be fair, I would rather my children were taught by the teacher, not the TA, as the name implies the TA is the assistant, not the teacher.
I suppose if a teacher can change a child, as her assistant so can you.
The minimum wage thing is a non starter. If you are taking the wage, you do the job. Plenty of carers on minimum wage managing bodily fluids.
Really not sure why you mention it, doubt teachers will say they are paid too much to change. Though as tax payer I would expect the majority to be benefiting from better paid, better qualified and better experienced staff member and the less qualified to be changing child as that does not require a teachers qualification.
If you qualify as a teacher will you then change child or expect TA to do it?
That being said, if you are unhappy with this element of your role, in the first instance speak to a senior manager, then HT and if not resolved see what the union suggests.
Hope you get it sorted op 💐

In my experience, the learning support assistant supports the learner with learning (ensuring the child stays on task, dealing with IEPs, etc) and may be specifically employed to support a child’s SEND or medical needs which MAY include personal care, while the teaching assistant supports the teacher with teaching (taking differentiated groups, running interventions, etc)

That may be your experience, but it isn’t a universal distinction made by all schools, LAs, professionals or SENDIST.

Exactly.

My son's bowel isn't going to start magically working correctly any time soon, he will always be bowel incontinent.