For refusing to change a 6 year old?

[Bernie6678]

So I’m 20 years old, at uni and working as a TA. I want to be a KS2 teacher. This is my first year working with children, I have no past experience, no children of my own etc. Posting here to get opinions from mums.

Anyway I’ve recently been moved from the year 5 classroom (which I loved) to year 1 and there’s multiple children who wet themselves and one of them actually poos himself quite regularly. No SEN. I understand the odd accident but this is happening a few times a week…
I’ve said I don’t feel comfortable changing children as this isn’t in my contract or job description and I’ve had no intimate care training. (Personally for minimum wage I’d rather not be dealing with poo and changing children).
I also think when a child wets themselves at this age they should be capable of going and changing themselves. We have lots of spare clothes and baby wipes here.

I’ve refused so the teacher or another TA changes the children.

Apparently the teacher has now complained about me because she’s having to do it when her previous TA would do it no questions asked. Previous TA has now had to go off on sick leave.

AIBU? They’re 6 years old?!

Yep, teaching staff often have to hide their real feelings, sadly. I'd imagine they don't hate him or the other SEN kids, but maybe hate the position they're forced into.

This!

It's not for the teacher to try and coerce you into changing a kid, because they themselves don't want to. If they don't want to (which is understandable too), they should be getting the head teacher to find a solution and / or getting a policy put in place / enforcing the school policy. That's why they're there!

This. I fully agree with you and I'm sorry for some of the posts on this thread.

I think you need to consider what will happen when you qualify, and a child has an accident in class and your TA refuses to change them because they haven’t been trained….
You’l spend a lot of teaching time in the toilets.
You’l also get very used to cleaning up vomit, snot and bogeys, blood. It’s a bodily fluid minefield!

Totally agree with you. If a child isn't potty trained they shouldn't be going to school. It's the parents' job to potty train a child, not the teachers. Sadly the same parents who send their children to school without adequate potty training are oftentimes the same ones who haven't bothered to teach them to read, write, or do basic maths before they get sent to school at the age of 5. It is staggering how many children cannot read - and have never been read to - at that age. I cannot fathom why people fail to potty train their children by the age of 3 (at the latest) - the cost alone of all those nappies and products must be ridiculous!

You don't get to be sorry on anyone else's behalf though.

I understand. This is why we need sure start and parenting lessons offered to all, social services involvement - not teachers being substitute mothers!

On a separate note, I read the title of this post, as being like changing the actual child for another! Like returning one to a shop. Which would ofc have BVU!!

Can you blame parents when nappy companies have poured money into persuading them (wrongly) that forcing potty training when kids aren't "ready" causes permanent psychological damage? When every parenting forum is ready to leap on parents for training "too early"?

I potty trained my two sons at 2yrs 4 months which was pretty standard for where we live - and it's contagious too, we started when we saw parents of other 2 yos had started and were worried we might be leaving it too late. When other parents of older kids saw ours had been trained successfully, they started too!

We need more support and encouragement from NHS, nurseries to tell parents to go for it as soon as humanly possible - and to persevere.

I expect someone to change him. Now he has an intimate care plan in place, I expect the 2 named on that to clean him.

He isn't capable of cleaning himself up which is why he has an intimate care plan.

I definitely agree that teachers, and other teaching staff, shouldn't be substitute mothers parents.

Meanwhile the child sits in dirty clothes. Duty of care isn't optional. If everyone refuses to care for a child in their care, they are all accountable for wilful neglect.

In that case the school nurse/medical people will be called. Teachers aren't supposed to leave a classroom unattended - most TAs are not permitted to be in a room alone with kids (which was part of the drama with pandemic teaching: TAs were being expected to be in classrooms alone with children - and they do not have the training, typically, to do that.

Different schools have different procedures and policies - so trying to scare a potential teacher with drama about bodily fluids seems pretty bad form. It's difficult enough finding people who want to be teachers at the moment without people negging them.

No, but I see that clarity is a struggle for you. Your contribution was simply "nope".
This is a British forum, it is normal to imagine that most contributors are British or UK-based.

If you aren't, and I suppose I could extrapolate from your username that you're in Germany, then I'm not sure why you're so interested in contributing to this thread.

HTH

Fellow TA here. Of course you do it. The teacher is busy and you're there to help out and support, regardless if you agree or not. I hope the poor children haven't heard you refusing to help them. I'd say you're definitely not cut out for working with ks1 if this is your attitude.

I'd question if mainstream school is the right place for such a child tbh, though maybe there aren't other options available to you right now. The older and bigger he gets the more inappropriate this all becomes. It must be hard on him, the staff, and you.

Yup, I used mothers because let's be honest - majority of primary staff is female with odd male maybe 2 if we're lucky.

I've never got that impression but you are correct, I can't know for sure. They've always gone above and beyond to help him, they don't just do the bare minimum.

I wouldn't worry about it, she's not in the UK, apparently. 🙄

Toilet training failure is clearly a factor here. Look at the teachers who’ve posted on this thread about having to feed kids who’ve never been taught how to do it themselves, brushing teeth etc.
Evidently, some parents are falling far short of the absolute basic lessons and skills they should be teaching their own kids.

Is it normal for children to be able to read or write before primary school @Caligirl80 ? Genuinely interested, as our 4.5 year old is starting in September, and can't. He obviously can count (to 100), help load the dishwasher, make toast and spread peanut butter, put his shoes on and is toilet trained(!). But didn't know many of them could read or write?

Selective reading I see.
I won't be engaging further with you.
Also, UK and Britain aren't interchangeable and the English school system doesn't operate in all of the UK.

It makes me sad every time I see someone write this kind of comment up.

My eldest was noted as having some extra needs but there was born support with assessments to get correct diagnoses.

They overlooked (now diagnosed) adhd, autism, sensory processing disorder, and some physical disabilities (invisible kind).

The adhd and sensory processing disorder plus messed up digestive system and bowels caused daily soiling after severe constipation led to needing movicol.

I swear the movicol was useless and once a kid is on it, they're better off in nappies for the sake of their clothes, furniture, dignity and those who have to clean them.

The constipation and attention issues meant he wasn't even staying on the toilet - you'd put him on and he'd almost straight away get back off again, no concept of time, timers didn't work, he didn't have the coordination to eliminate properly.

The accidents didn't stop til the start of year 9 I think it was. Though by then they had tapered off to damp pants and skid marks.

Youngest was dairy intolerant but the GP refused to write a letter for the school, who therefore refused to stop giving her milk to drink during the day. So I'd be called in frequently to change her soiled clothes. It distressed her so much she began wetting herself as well - the primary was absolutely horrid and blamed me for every single thing.

Had they known how much extra effort I had to constantly put in, and as a single parent with their own disabilities to manage too, and had they bothered to help us with accessing assessments etc instead of saying I was making excuses, perhaps they wouldn't have led me to my nervous breakdown.

And my poor kids.

I'm sure there's some lazy parents out there who haven't put the effort in but it often takes until secondary or later for girls and afab kids to get an assessment for SEN conditions.

I'll get off my soapbox now.

I feel sorry for this child. For whatever reason, it's not their fault.

Check your contract carefully because you should be catering for all needs.

As for wanting to be a KS2 teacher....I've been teaching 15 years and if you are primary trained, you go from anywhere to y1 to y6 depending on where you're needed.

I get that you feel this isn't your job, but I hope that you're putting this kid first.

I've had to deal with toileting issues from children all the way up to y6. Yes it may be a parent issue, but in the moments day to day, we need to be there for those kids.

Exactly, and even though OP has said it's not SEN, look at all the posters who are still saying it must be undiagnosed SEN. It's just ridiculous.