For refusing to change a 6 year old?

[Bernie6678]

So I’m 20 years old, at uni and working as a TA. I want to be a KS2 teacher. This is my first year working with children, I have no past experience, no children of my own etc. Posting here to get opinions from mums.

Anyway I’ve recently been moved from the year 5 classroom (which I loved) to year 1 and there’s multiple children who wet themselves and one of them actually poos himself quite regularly. No SEN. I understand the odd accident but this is happening a few times a week…
I’ve said I don’t feel comfortable changing children as this isn’t in my contract or job description and I’ve had no intimate care training. (Personally for minimum wage I’d rather not be dealing with poo and changing children).
I also think when a child wets themselves at this age they should be capable of going and changing themselves. We have lots of spare clothes and baby wipes here.

I’ve refused so the teacher or another TA changes the children.

Apparently the teacher has now complained about me because she’s having to do it when her previous TA would do it no questions asked. Previous TA has now had to go off on sick leave.

AIBU? They’re 6 years old?!

So, let me get this straight, you think staff who are trained to educate should be actualky off wiping up poo from one child, ignoring the rest of the class, meanwhile the parents of said child take no responsibility whatsoever?
No wonder less and less people want to work in education.

Schools are putting in place measures where parents need to come in and change their non-toilet trained children’s nappies and rightly so.

OP is a teaching assistant, not a care assistant.

Yep, and it's not several times a day. It happens once, the parent is called to come collect their child. School staff should absolutely help in unexpected circumstances such as tummy bugs, falling and hurting themselves, occasionally wee accidents.
But if something happens regularly then that's very different. There should be a care plan in place with involvement of professionals, lots of children wait too long for a diagnosis, but a diagnosis is not needed for an ehcp to be applied for.

This.

When the OP talks about training, she doesn't mean she needs to be told how to clean a child but, like so many things, you're not protected if you're not trained. And you're not covered by the insurance if you're not trained. And you won't have the support of the school if you're not trained.

Teachers aren't carers.

I'm sorry, a teacher has to brush reception children teeth. Surely, this is neglect?

They could've said that his needs couldn't be met at school but they obviously didn't.

Though they also know full well, even with the fact that he now has an EHCP that he'd never be accepted into a special school.

I know plenty of adults who have always been incontinent. There were more places in special schools in them days. I also have a brother who is autistic but went to mainstream school in the 90s, he wasn't fully continent until he was 9. School assisted him discretely when needed.

YANBU at all. I see a lot of parents here saying that it's not all to do with lazy parents. And of course it's not. There are lots of children with genuine medical issues.

But there are a lot of well meaning parents out there who are not potty training their children, or who are leaving it extremely late. I am on a few "gentle parenting" facebook groups, and this page from the "Visible child" is posted incredibly frequently: https://visiblechild.com/2015/09/20/toilet-training-in-one-simple-step/

What is the advice on that page? It's to not toilet train at all. People will say to parents having any troubles at all with toilet training that their child isn't "ready" and to leave it until children are 3, or even 4.

I have seen a few times parents following this "advice" and their children still being in nappies at 4. At 5. At 6. Asking for help. Ending up using and accessing the support of incontinence charities & the NHS continence services.

Are those parents "lazy"? No. They followed incredibly bad advice, but advice that just happens to align with the path of least resistance.

NHS needs to push potty training at 2, and persevering with it - kids are ready much earlier than we think. Time was most kids were out of nappies by 18 months.

OP, find another school - this isn't the school for you. Tbh, it's almost half term now anyway so not long left.

They're crying out for teaching assistants anyway, you'll easily find another job.

Also a teaching assistant job is to assist the teacher with teaching and helping the pupils. Not cleaning up poo!

You can tell the posters who are fucking nightmare parents for their children’s teachers, can’t you? A mile off.

Your post appears to lack empathy for the children

I’d be calling the parents to take them home every time this happened. It’s not fair on you or the other children.

It is entirely down to parental neglect. Get social services involved.

Again, did they actually have much real choice? I doubt it.

The school should be making a referral if there is no obvious reason for the soiling which it should be a medical reason. Soiling yourself at 6 is not normal and a welfare concern. I would say you should do what you need to for the welfare of the child but do not let it go unreported! Unfortunately a lot of schools are academies now and are less tied to local authority governance but you have a duty to ask the school to make a referral for a welfare check and if they don't do it you should blow the whistle

That might depend on the company. I did it and had no training and no offer for a hepatitis vaccination.

Yup... few usernames come to mind! The entitlement and lack of understanding what a primary teacher/teaching assistant has been hired to do, oh my gosh. Social services need to be involved.

Of course it's entitled. This is why teachers are leaving in droves (or choosing not to teach as a profession). Everyone misses out. I would understand if it was a rare case, but given this is almost becoming an epidemic there is something else going on.

Yes. Our Reception teachers do it.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/supervised-toothbrushing-for-children-to-prevent-tooth-decay www.gov.uk/government/news/supervised-toothbrushing-for-children-to-prevent-tooth-decay]]

This. A child who regularly poos himself is fairly likely to have some sort of SEN, even if it is diagnosed.

If you don't want to do it, that's fair enough, and if it is an issue at your workplace you can surely find another job with an age group and children you prefer working with. You say you're at uni, so is this a placement? In that case, surely it will be over soon anyway?

But some kids do need that extra support. As a mother of a child with SEN (not to that extent, but he is autistic and is in nappies at night stipp despite being 6, and weed himself regularly in Reception), I'd be concerned what would happen if nobody did assist him after a pooing incident. Would he just be left to sit in his own faeces until his parents arrive (which, unless they don't have jobs or work from home, could be a long time).

I'm not saying I'd want to do it. I'm a senior school teacher rather than primary for a reason. But I also think you need to look at this from other perspectives. And it's not as easy as figuring out 'why this I'd happening'. To be honest, I'd be concerned if my son's TA thought like that. It's typically very complex with no easy/quick fix.

Just to say it doesn’t need a diagnosis (lots of children never get that, often those are dependent on parents pushing it or years later) but there are obviously some issues here that need highlighting. However no YNBU because you’re uncomfortable with it.

Oh I'm sorry, I wasn't insinuating you weren't being truthful. It was more me being shocked. Surely this is neglect and social services need to be involved?

Nope what? What specifically are you saying no to?

Our local schools have teethbrushing staff who go in at lunchtime, to assist with and encourage tooth brushing in the lower primary years. Coming from a household where we did brush our teeth, but not often enough, I wish we'd had something similar! Sadly, some children are neglected, to varying extents, including in terms of hygiene.

As I said, they could've said they can't meet his needs. They were very quick to tell me that they could even without an ECHP if they felt put out and forced to anyway.