Two Tier’s days are numbered

[Jennps]

Starmer will be gone by this time next year.

This government is imploding right before our eyes, despite a huge (but shallow) majority. People didn’t vote for Labour, as much as they voted against the diabolical Tories in the last election.

Coupled with that, the calibre of MPs in general, but especially the new Labour MPs is shockingly low. These are people who have never had real jobs, and found themselves accidentally in charge of the country. Most them would struggle to use a calculator, let alone understand how the economy works.

Bond markets are already punishing ‘Rachel from accounts’. Cue the insults about misogyny despite the fact that calling her from accounts is an insult to those who actually work in accounts. Gilts are already above when Truss was in charge, meaning the situation is worse. Crazy tax hikes are on the way. Top rate taxpayers are leaving the country in droves.

Boat crossings are at a record high. Unemployment is up, inflation is on the increase. The country is at very real risk of recession.

If Starmer falls, his replacement candidates are terrifying. It’s possible the government could fall within 2 years or so. The chances of Reform getting into power will increase many fold if there is a snap election in that timeframe.

Wonder if the economically illiterate, constantly wanting to constantly shake the magic money tree, are ready for Reform.

A national economy isn’t a household budget.

neweconomics.org/2018/10/a-government-is-not-a-household

'The economy was starting to do quite well when this lot took over.'

That's your direct quote.

I'm sure it can get worse and may well do, and I'm happy to give any government the benefit of the doubt when global events cause downturns, ie financial crash, Covid, etc, but not when they are a direct result of a disastrous budget. To then try and say look how well it was doing, after such a cock up is just laughable and hold zero credit to the goverment.

Look how well we're doing now, we've stopped F*ing it so much.

@EasternStandard

What cuts in public spending would you like to see?

You're asking for large amounts of money to be taken out of our communities, with the belief that doing so will strengthen our economy?

There was no black hole. RR has made a new one though with the immediate payments to already very well paid state workers such as train drivers.

No. Labour does not design policies for working people in the private sector I'm afraid. We are a cash cow for the state sector. A greater and greater proportion of which is subsided by the private sector which is being hammered.

Labour represents people who work for the state represented by unions, people who are on benefits, immigrants and asylum seekers. All worthy in their own right but a big change from who Labour originally spoke for (the working person).

Yes I occasionally go to the GP but pay for my prescriptions. I pay an awful lot of tax for the privilege.

No I don't use state schools.

I'm not personally worried about the NI increase as I am an employer rather than an employee. i can just reduce head count and not employ people. But I have young adult children who now find it much harder to get jobs.

I have no problem paying tax. But I have problems paying tax to finance mistakes that Labour make for idealogical reasons. Eg APR on farms. Brought in to wind up people like Jeremy Clarkson but will actually devastate farming.

I don't seek to persuade you obviously. Its a difference in approach. Socialists think the state owns everyone's money and then choses how much of you are allowed to keep depending on the particular ideology at any one time, the rest being taken from you by taxation. Conservatives believe we should all own our own assets and income and the state takes what is reasonable in tax to run what is essential for the country. As there have been more conservative governments than Labour, the country generally agrees with the latter approach and hopefully will again in 2029.

Does Starmer still go on about the 'black hole' at every PMQs not matter what the question?

Any hole is down to Reeves and Starmer now.

There was no black hole.

https://ifs.org.uk/articles/ps22bn-black-hole-was-obvious-anyone-who-dared-look

🙄. That article doesn’t support what you say. Here’s a better and later analysis:

https://fullfact.org/economy/22-billion-black-hole/

The ‘black hole’ is bollocks.

That says there was though - based on commitments made there was a £22b hole. To avert that you have to cut spending that was already approved and promised.

No black hole? Who was in government when zero hours contracts soared, subsidised by in work benefits? Or when we almost ran out of prison places, when the enormous increase in the welfare bill happened, when massive sums were spent on unusable PPE and unsecured Covid loans? Who was in charge when inflation and interest rates increase people’s mortgages and cost of living? Who sold all the council houses?

Yes conservatives believe in small state when it benefits them, but their decisions swelled the state, depleted people’s assets and ability to support themselves, and now point at Labour and say ‘you’re bad with money’.

We all know there was no "black hole"

And if there were, it didn't seem to fuss Starmer who has added another £30billion to it (an example amoung many examples of reckless Labour spending) in order for us to be able to give away the strategic asset of the Chagos islands against the wishes of the people who live there.

We all - except apparently you - know there was. All including the IFS and the OBR.

Oh hang on..Labour have created ANOTHER BLACK HOLE!! They've promised £40billion for defence too! And lost all their headroom by yesterday's antics.

How irresponsible.

I'm afraid fairies don't exist either. Not even if you really really believe..

They appear to in your world, they seem to have spirited away a huge budget deficit.

Thanks for this

Hang on..I would have slightly given RR the benefit of the doubt about the TTBPBH (although as we now know, it was another little fib) if Labour hadn't immediately spent billions on public sector payrises including vast pensions that our children and grandchildren will have to pay for, for no discernable change in working practices AND no actual benefit as the strikes are continuing!! What an utterly irresponsible decision right from the start. So the alleged "£22 billion" (ahem) is peanuts compared to the useless and irresponsible hundreds of billions that this spendthrift government are piling on us and generations after us for idealogical or useless reasons.

And we can all see it.

If I was Labour I would just be upfront and say yes we are utterly rubbish. Sorry everyone. And yes we had 14 long years to prepare but didnt bother to actually do any prep unfortunately. But we really didn't expect to win and we realise most people only voted to get the Tories out and aren't actually hugely keen on our policies.

So we aren't going to do anything mental straight away like fiddle with PIP or schools or farms or employment tax or non doms and instead are going to sit down and have a proper think about things with some people who actually know what they are talking about, which is not any of the current cabinet. And not go nuts with things we can't really forsee the effects of that.we just scribbled down on the.back of an envelope when pissed.

‘There was no black hole, definitely not, but even if there was one a politician I don’t like has made it bigger. Well, not bigger because there wasn’t a hole in the first place.’

So I take it you were ok with all the Tory decisions I listed?

As for the Chagos, they were not ours to give away, as made clear by the ICJ. I quite like a government that refuses to colonise other countries.

This quotes the OBR number of 9.5 billion of spending they were unaware of ( but known to the treasury and presumably Mr Hunt).

In the context of almost 1.3 trillion of public spending it is quite a stretch to call that a black hole.

So unlike Rachel to be less than truthful

Clever old you to notice my either/or. But if I fail on one argument, I have another up my sleeve. Yes bigger black hole. Or Labour made a black hole of their own. Either way it's embarrassing to keep banging on about something they.caused or contributed to themselves.

Yes all good.

ICJ didn't give a legally binding judgement. We could have ignored it. Just like any other country that acts in its national interest of its people and their children. The Mauritians did! Their government got a fantastic deal for their people out of the blue for no reason and financed by generations of people from the UK. Can you imagine France agreeing to the same? No. Because the French act in the interests of France not random other countries.

The Chagos nonsense will become a massive albatross around Labour’s neck. A policy cooked up in left-wing metropolitan lawyers’ offices that has no connection with the real world. It’s just a naive law student’s essay, in policy form. And it will cost us hugely.

They started off by making sweeping, unpopular changes far too rapidly rather than giving the public a little ' sweetener 'after 14 years of crap. People needed some optimism, hope. The advisors got it totally wrong and wildly underestimated how angry, disillusioned and fed up people are. To then pour oil on the flames by announcing policies that were going to make vulnerable people's lives worse, what on earth were they expecting? Unfortunately due to this gigantic balls up, anything even vaguely positive they announce now will be overshadowed by the constant u-turns and clumsy attempts at ' rousing' speeches. How can anyone take them seriously? They're gone and they've squandered a great opportunity.

You got a survey to back up that absurd claim?

The New Economics Foundation is a mickey mouse Marxist organization with no policies that would work in the real world

Zahra Sultana is resigning from Labour Party to set up a new party with Jeremy Corbyn. Presumably in protest at the situation in Palestine.

Now Two Tier really is finished. Labour vote will be split further. In majority Muslim constituencies the protest vote will go to the new party. In the red wall, to Reform.

What a gift to Reform.