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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Two Tier’s days are numbered

657 replies

Jennps · 02/07/2025 06:37

Starmer will be gone by this time next year.

This government is imploding right before our eyes, despite a huge (but shallow) majority. People didn’t vote for Labour, as much as they voted against the diabolical Tories in the last election.

Coupled with that, the calibre of MPs in general, but especially the new Labour MPs is shockingly low. These are people who have never had real jobs, and found themselves accidentally in charge of the country. Most them would struggle to use a calculator, let alone understand how the economy works.

Bond markets are already punishing ‘Rachel from accounts’. Cue the insults about misogyny despite the fact that calling her from accounts is an insult to those who actually work in accounts. Gilts are already above when Truss was in charge, meaning the situation is worse. Crazy tax hikes are on the way. Top rate taxpayers are leaving the country in droves.

Boat crossings are at a record high. Unemployment is up, inflation is on the increase. The country is at very real risk of recession.

If Starmer falls, his replacement candidates are terrifying. It’s possible the government could fall within 2 years or so. The chances of Reform getting into power will increase many fold if there is a snap election in that timeframe.

Wonder if the economically illiterate, constantly wanting to constantly shake the magic money tree, are ready for Reform.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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BeardofHagrid · 02/07/2025 10:58

But Two Tier exudes so much human warmth.

Angela is a sweetheart, just the sort of person you’d trust with your dog or child.

Rachel is so good at maths. 😊

Soulfulunfurling · 02/07/2025 10:58

EasternStandard · 02/07/2025 10:54

Yes I think so too. Those MPs will keep demanding more and we can’t borrow more.

Exactly. No one on here will listen

BOND MARKETS

Look it up people.

Starmer has no choice but to continue to slash and burn. His own MPs are utterly morally bankrupt@ to not support Starmer with this, surely it must have been spelt out to them the consequences if they don’t. The bond markets will stop lending the U.K. money…. And then what happens?

GoodbyeRosie · 02/07/2025 10:58

Soulfulunfurling · 02/07/2025 10:33

It’s not as bad as the mornings the poor and vulnerable are going to be waking up to in the future unless someone grabs the steering wheel and fast.

I know right? they were so well looked after under 14 years of Tory Government.

There is nothing, absolutely nothing, that Sir Keir Starmer could do that would please Mumsnets dominant demographic.

Well resign, that would please them but they would collapse in a dead faint if Angela Raynor ( that voice! so provincial!) took over the leadership.

But Nigel, eh?, he'd sort all this out. Man of the people.

GasPanic · 02/07/2025 10:59

AnonymousBleep · 02/07/2025 10:53

But why would you do that? Reform are promising everything because none of their promises are funded. You can't offer tax cuts AND better public services, as they're confidently promising. They won't stop the boats. And Nigel Farage is a lone wolf who falls out with everyone he works with - and a lazy arse when it comes to the daily grind - and would be a disaster in government. Why, honestly, does that look like a good option? It would be Liz Truss all over again, but much worse.

Wasn't that what Labour were promising before the election ?

No tax rises and wonderful improvements.

And now they are screwed. Because improvements don't come without spending money and they cannot borrow any because the markets won't let them.

Quirkswork · 02/07/2025 11:00

Mumble12 · 02/07/2025 10:49

I've yet to have a coherent response to the question "what are the two tiers"

Oh was that to me?

One example of two tier Keir would be the policing of Southport riots and the speed at which the courts cranked into gear to jail the white protesters but not so fast with for example those violent thugs at Manchester Aiport that broke the policewoman nose. We have a tweeter in prison for 31 months but violent prisoners freed. It will be interesting to see what happens re the Glastonbury anti semites as I suspect quite a few people would have been offended (which is of course the basis that you can get jailed these days.)

His approach to white working class victims of the rape gangs when running the DPP.

Come on...get your head out of the sand and read the news sometime.

Serpentstooth · 02/07/2025 11:01

Let Reform 'have a go'? Cast your eyes across the ocean. Look at the success Trump is making of his country. And you'd welcome that here? I worry about some people, I really do.

AnonymousBleep · 02/07/2025 11:01

GasPanic · 02/07/2025 10:59

Wasn't that what Labour were promising before the election ?

No tax rises and wonderful improvements.

And now they are screwed. Because improvements don't come without spending money and they cannot borrow any because the markets won't let them.

No, Reform are actively promising tax CUTs, which is not the same as saying no tax rises. Those cuts are unfunded - the money would have to come from public services. The end result would be the richer getting richer at the expense of the poor.

EasternStandard · 02/07/2025 11:02

GoodbyeRosie · 02/07/2025 10:58

I know right? they were so well looked after under 14 years of Tory Government.

There is nothing, absolutely nothing, that Sir Keir Starmer could do that would please Mumsnets dominant demographic.

Well resign, that would please them but they would collapse in a dead faint if Angela Raynor ( that voice! so provincial!) took over the leadership.

But Nigel, eh?, he'd sort all this out. Man of the people.

Starmer and Labour have plenty of supporters on mn, you are one of them.

It has more than other sites do and is at odds with polling.

mutinyonthetwix · 02/07/2025 11:04

AnonymousBleep · 02/07/2025 10:53

But why would you do that? Reform are promising everything because none of their promises are funded. You can't offer tax cuts AND better public services, as they're confidently promising. They won't stop the boats. And Nigel Farage is a lone wolf who falls out with everyone he works with - and a lazy arse when it comes to the daily grind - and would be a disaster in government. Why, honestly, does that look like a good option? It would be Liz Truss all over again, but much worse.

I don't think any party ever has actually costed or funded a manifesto or programme for government no matter how much they claim to have done so.

Fact is we have three options. Options A and B are proven to just make things worse. Option C will probably make things worse too but we haven't really tried it. As I say I am getting to the point of "might as well give it a whirl".

Of course Labour has another four years to turn things round and win me back but if the past year is anything to go by that seems improbable.

And re - small boats I honestly don't care. I doubt it's even close to the top 20 things that need fixing right now and nobody else is going to fix it either.

GasPanic · 02/07/2025 11:05

MoominUnderWater · 02/07/2025 10:54

I think I probably agree with 95% of this.

The question is what now? You said are the economically illiterate ready for Reform? I'm assuming you don't think they'll be any better from an economy pov? I reckon most of their "candidates" couldn't run a piss up in a brewery/haven't had any experience of high level, decent jobs in the real world.

So what do we do? How do we as a country get out this mess?

Or are we fucked.

I read in a few years time that house ownership and even buying a car will be out of reach of most middle class people. Is that what we want for our kids? That a teacher/nurse/etc can't afford to buy a car never mind a house??????

I think if you are middle class/working then you are now screwed. The country now really has to go through the process of hitting rock bottom before things can get better.

Especially if Labour try to gerrymander the next election by giving 16 year olds and EU citizens the vote. This will end the ability of middle England to influence the election outcome.

Jennps · 02/07/2025 11:05

MoominUnderWater · 02/07/2025 10:54

I think I probably agree with 95% of this.

The question is what now? You said are the economically illiterate ready for Reform? I'm assuming you don't think they'll be any better from an economy pov? I reckon most of their "candidates" couldn't run a piss up in a brewery/haven't had any experience of high level, decent jobs in the real world.

So what do we do? How do we as a country get out this mess?

Or are we fucked.

I read in a few years time that house ownership and even buying a car will be out of reach of most middle class people. Is that what we want for our kids? That a teacher/nurse/etc can't afford to buy a car never mind a house??????

Reform getting in will be a reaction to 28 years of disastrous government (32 years by next GE if Labour last that long).

By shape shifting on two child benefit cap, Reform have just shown themselves up to be what we all knew - opportunists. They are right about uncontrolled migration, government spending, the need to cut taxes, but none of that are novel ideas owned by reform. Most sane people know that this needs to happen. Supported by massive supply side reforms, building roads and airports and runways, oil and nuclear energy, attracting foreign investment to do the very things nimbys hate.

The country, sadly, will get a bigger shock. Reform getting in, failing to do anything because they are just a protest party.

In that time, we can only hope that Tories will have been purged, like totally cleansed of the rotting flesh that is the current parliamentary party. No one who has been a Tory in the last 25 years, should be allowed to remain if expect any semblance of a sane ruling party. The same could have been said for Labour but they are too badly infected by the far loony left for anyone to get anything done.

OP posts:
GasPanic · 02/07/2025 11:06

AnonymousBleep · 02/07/2025 11:01

No, Reform are actively promising tax CUTs, which is not the same as saying no tax rises. Those cuts are unfunded - the money would have to come from public services. The end result would be the richer getting richer at the expense of the poor.

To me it's exactly the same thing. Promising something you can't deliver on in order to get elected.

BIossomtoes · 02/07/2025 11:07

EasternStandard · 02/07/2025 11:02

Starmer and Labour have plenty of supporters on mn, you are one of them.

It has more than other sites do and is at odds with polling.

Edited

What other sites? As far as I can see at the moment the predominant MN view is the same as multi millionaire Rod Stewart’s.

EasternStandard · 02/07/2025 11:09

GasPanic · 02/07/2025 10:59

Wasn't that what Labour were promising before the election ?

No tax rises and wonderful improvements.

And now they are screwed. Because improvements don't come without spending money and they cannot borrow any because the markets won't let them.

They’ll struggle with this for the next few years then GE. Although the same back benchers could try to force more spending and see things crash earlier.

Mumble12 · 02/07/2025 11:10

Quirkswork · 02/07/2025 11:00

Oh was that to me?

One example of two tier Keir would be the policing of Southport riots and the speed at which the courts cranked into gear to jail the white protesters but not so fast with for example those violent thugs at Manchester Aiport that broke the policewoman nose. We have a tweeter in prison for 31 months but violent prisoners freed. It will be interesting to see what happens re the Glastonbury anti semites as I suspect quite a few people would have been offended (which is of course the basis that you can get jailed these days.)

His approach to white working class victims of the rape gangs when running the DPP.

Come on...get your head out of the sand and read the news sometime.

Ah OK well if those are your opinions, there's no point continuing the conversation because it will go round and round while you insist Lucy Connolly was a victim of unfair treatment (depsite pleading guilty and being sentenced well within guidelines).

It is important to remember that the ongoing and very current Southport riots, rightly needed swift action to stop them. At the time of the Southport riots, the people involved in the Manchester airport incident hadn't been charged with anything - courts can't act until police bring charges. None of the police were charged despite using excessive force. Interestingly no one sees that as two tiers of justice.

TallestSkyscrapers · 02/07/2025 11:11

Quirkswork · 02/07/2025 08:10

You love him too?

You are embarrassing yourself now. I have known about this phrase for decades. Didn’t know DC used it.

TallestSkyscrapers · 02/07/2025 11:13

As a Labour supporter, I have been disappointed by Starmer. A stronger leader could have made such a difference.

OP, your post is so full of cliches: Red Ed, Two Tier, Rachel from accounts etc, that I can’t take it seriously.

Lilactimes · 02/07/2025 11:15

Soulfulunfurling · 02/07/2025 10:00

You are going to be waiting a very very long time if you think this has anything to do with ‘Tory misrule’

Honestly I question the IQ levels of this country. Such a lazy grasp of the fundamental basics of an our country’s economics is why we are here today. People thought they were voting for change, even at the time it was wishful thinking at best.

NO - people voted for a more consistent leadership (not an upper class back biting bun fight who consistently took their eye off the ball) AND a value system that was more in keeping with protecting the more vulnerable and not the 1% @Soulfulunfurling

I agree though that a lot of what is going on now is not all down to Tory misrule.
There is of course Brexit and Covid mismanagement, plus post Covid Mismanagement by missing inflationary pressures and no leadership in place to capitalise on post Covid opportunities instead Tory leadership indulged in their own leadership elections throughout 2022
Apart from the above which is Tory mismanagement in the extreme…
There are also additional issues of current global trade difficulties / War in Europe and ME/ Climate change/ AI to navigate.

Soulfulunfurling · 02/07/2025 11:16

The elephant in the room is the malignancy of the far left still very very much present in the party (looking at you Ange) biding their time - then they will sink the whole country in one fail swoop when the timing is right. It’s been in the pipeline with union backing for decades that I know of.

The public will squeal with dismay as they flatten all growth, productivity and ambition. Steam roll over education, aspiration and innovation. We will be no better than communist China in the bad days before they used torture and AI to force the nation into compliance. The levelling up, really means levelling down and our poor children saddled with the dire consequences.

Anyone that can not see this car crash in slow motion is really living in a distorted dystopia of ill founded hope. The shit is going to hit the fan, and it’s coming sooner than you think.

TallestSkyscrapers · 02/07/2025 11:22

EasternStandard · 02/07/2025 09:31

Cone on you used the bot term. Just learn from it and don’t react to every view that isn’t Labour on a public forum.

I hate it when people talk about bots and shills. It happens on every side. During the vat on school fees discussions, people who disagreed, were accused of being Tory bots. It is all so tiresome.

EasternStandard · 02/07/2025 11:22

Lilactimes · 02/07/2025 11:15

NO - people voted for a more consistent leadership (not an upper class back biting bun fight who consistently took their eye off the ball) AND a value system that was more in keeping with protecting the more vulnerable and not the 1% @Soulfulunfurling

I agree though that a lot of what is going on now is not all down to Tory misrule.
There is of course Brexit and Covid mismanagement, plus post Covid Mismanagement by missing inflationary pressures and no leadership in place to capitalise on post Covid opportunities instead Tory leadership indulged in their own leadership elections throughout 2022
Apart from the above which is Tory mismanagement in the extreme…
There are also additional issues of current global trade difficulties / War in Europe and ME/ Climate change/ AI to navigate.

Not much here on what Labour are getting wrong rn

Why is that?

EasternStandard · 02/07/2025 11:23

TallestSkyscrapers · 02/07/2025 11:22

I hate it when people talk about bots and shills. It happens on every side. During the vat on school fees discussions, people who disagreed, were accused of being Tory bots. It is all so tiresome.

Ik it’s on every thread, usually from Labour voters.

Vaxtable · 02/07/2025 11:24

Reform won’t win. People are waking up to the fact they are crap with the little they have done since local council elections

SarfLondonLad · 02/07/2025 11:24

Nice try Kemi.

AnAlpacaForChristmasPleaseSanta · 02/07/2025 11:25

Meadowfinch · 02/07/2025 06:50

After his failure yesterday, it is clear he has no support, is just a figurehead, and is completely toothless.

The unions will smell blood, and yes, I think he'll be gone shortly. They'll put someone further left in, with even less grasp of economics and the UK is genuinely stuffed.

I don't think it'll be Raynor because I don't think the unions will, even now, tolerate a woman.

Then Reform will win a landslide in 2029.

What a complete mess !!

This is my thinking too unfortunately.

What a difference a year makes.

Stop the world, I want to get off 😥.

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