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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Two Tier’s days are numbered

657 replies

Jennps · 02/07/2025 06:37

Starmer will be gone by this time next year.

This government is imploding right before our eyes, despite a huge (but shallow) majority. People didn’t vote for Labour, as much as they voted against the diabolical Tories in the last election.

Coupled with that, the calibre of MPs in general, but especially the new Labour MPs is shockingly low. These are people who have never had real jobs, and found themselves accidentally in charge of the country. Most them would struggle to use a calculator, let alone understand how the economy works.

Bond markets are already punishing ‘Rachel from accounts’. Cue the insults about misogyny despite the fact that calling her from accounts is an insult to those who actually work in accounts. Gilts are already above when Truss was in charge, meaning the situation is worse. Crazy tax hikes are on the way. Top rate taxpayers are leaving the country in droves.

Boat crossings are at a record high. Unemployment is up, inflation is on the increase. The country is at very real risk of recession.

If Starmer falls, his replacement candidates are terrifying. It’s possible the government could fall within 2 years or so. The chances of Reform getting into power will increase many fold if there is a snap election in that timeframe.

Wonder if the economically illiterate, constantly wanting to constantly shake the magic money tree, are ready for Reform.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
11
Sabire9 · 02/07/2025 10:39

@Quirkswork

"We therefore need to leave the ECHR if it cannot reform or reflect the world as it is today."

The world today is more conflict ridden than the world after WW2.

Why do you think protecting human rights is less important now than it was then?

Soulfulunfurling · 02/07/2025 10:40

Sabire9 · 02/07/2025 10:36

  • *@Soulfulunfurling

I suspect you get all your information on migration from a Reform social media feed.

Do you want to share your links to reliable sources on the number of illegal immigrants who aren't in the system - ie, they just disappear into the black economy, where presumably they work for exceptionally low wages, thus generating large amounts of wealth for their employers, with the enormous surplus value from their labour.

I couldn’t care less for reform but you can literally see boat loads of people washing up, if you care to take a walk along any coast line in Kent. Or do you believe you are being lied to every evening on the news? Asssuming you find live anywhere near here. Do you suppose they are simple lies?

Cyclebabble · 02/07/2025 10:41

Kier is in for five years. I do not think it is unlikely he will go over this period. However, on current form he will not get a second term and there is IMV a series risk that we finish up with reform.

GasPanic · 02/07/2025 10:42

So the left are conspiring and kicking off against him.

Which is what everyone other than the Labour supporters said would happen.

The problem is that a left wing agenda normally requires a massive amount of state spending. But the state can't borrow money. And the right of Labour don't want to tax because it will make them too unpopular and lose the next election.

So they are stuck between a rock and a hard place. It will be this struggle, reining in spending against a backdrop of left wing complaints that will define politics over the next few years.

Starmer finished ? I don't think so. But it's more than a flesh wound.

Hellohelga · 02/07/2025 10:43

@40YearOldDad interesting about the 1905 Aliens Act, I didn’t know that.

Parker231 · 02/07/2025 10:44

Boilingfrogatprimaryschool · 02/07/2025 10:07

It's long enough to show you aren't up to the job though.

We gave the Tories 14 years and they damaged the country from which it’s unlikely to recover for decades.
Who would you prefer - Reform

ilovesooty · 02/07/2025 10:45

AnonymousBleep · 02/07/2025 09:36

This is a massive problem for any government, though. We've got a massive elderly population sustained by a shrinking number of tax payers, with the birth rate going down so this will only decrease. Reform/Tories bang on about cutting welfare but in reality, they'd come up against the same problem. Fiddling with PIP etc is only tinkering round the edges. There isn't an obvious solution to the ticking pensions timebomb.

Agreed.

Winterwonders24 · 02/07/2025 10:45

Jennps · 02/07/2025 10:29

The rot started in 1997 when nu Labour got in. They opened the borders and killed off what was left of industry as well as dumbing down education. Not single decision that stood the test of time.
Start of uncontrolled mass immigration, devaluing degrees and graduate wages forcing everyone into university for pointless degrees, wage suppression through creating a massive welfare handout state by subsidizing low wages with tax credits, selling off the nation’s gold before gold prices sky rocketed, and just to top it off, destabilising the Iraq and Syria and engaging in war crimes.

Then came ‘Call me Dave’, a guy you would lot pay to clean out your shed, let alone run the country. Didn’t make a single good decision to grow the country.

‘Maybot’ took it up a notch by making a hash of Brexit over 3 long years and as if that wasn’t enough, wrote net 0 into legislation without any debate, condemning the country to permanent extortionate energy prices and killing off what left of manufacturing industry including steel.

Johnson was an absolute unmitigated disaster, letting in a million people a year, mostly unskilled migrants who are not even net contributors. Not to mention rampant corruption and stealing taxes to give to his Covid cronies. Two decades of shit leadership had finally taken its toll and.

Truss, the woman who was right about supply side reforms but had no clue how to make it happen. Through her incompetence, she even killed the credibility of the idea even though supply side reforms are exactly what this country needs to growth.

Rishi was frankly pointless. Having borrowed and printed a trillion pounds to pay for Covid corruption, leaving the country with nearly 20% inflation, he decided to bullshit his way through the next 2 years.

And now we have Two Tier. A man, who if x rayed, would turn out to be missing a spine. Who lives by the values of ‘if you don’t like my principles, I have these other ones’. Flanked by an entourage of comedians:

Rachel from accounts, who, when she’s not plagiarizing other people’s work or lying on her cv, is being accused of fiddling expenses at her previous employer and bunking off work. That’s who we have in charge of the nations finances.

Angela ‘I’d rather be scrapping outside the pub’ Rayner showing that no bar is low enough if you want to be in government.

David Lamey whose single brain cell is so lonely, it needs therapy.

Bridget Phillipson, a face that only a mother could employ. That, too, in a charity run by said parent. And this is who is in charge of educating the next generation.

Jonathan Reynolds, another alumni from ‘Rachel from accounts’ school of liars. He lied about having been a lawyer.

Yvette Cooper, like Diane Abbott when she was the shadow Home Secretary, with a minor saving grace that she can put her shoes on the right way around.

Louise ‘phones4me’ Haigh, running transport until someone realized that giving someone like that a portfolio with billions might look bad.

Red Miliband, who is killing off industry and letting every costs run away even more, so that his ‘green’ cronies can cash in.

Lucy ‘oi you’re racist’ Powell. Don’t mention grooming gangs at all in front of our enlightened culture secretary. She will call you a racist. She thinks calling out rape is dog whistle politics.

Lord Hermer, who as, attorney general, makes it his life’s mission to fight for terrorists to make sure that they can never be deported. Loves uncontrolled immigration. And generally doesn’t give two hoots about about anything other than protecting wrong ‘uns.

Basically this cohort of morons has been destroying this country for 27 years. This government, though, gives the term ‘shower of shite’ a whole new meaning.

Edited

Beautifully put

Lilactimes · 02/07/2025 10:46

ilovesooty · 02/07/2025 10:37

He's never improved life for anyone except himself and his rich cronies. Given his lies about Brexit I'd like to see him charged with treason and imprisoned.

Absolutely this @ilovesooty 👏👏👏

Mumble12 · 02/07/2025 10:49

Quirkswork · 02/07/2025 06:59

"Thick as mince". Great quote by Dominic Cummings who you presumably admire.

I see nothing wrong in a nickname. Are we supposed to respect this travesty of a PM? Two Tier Keir very neatly sums up his approach to many issues in this country, mainly due to.his warped ideology.

I've yet to have a coherent response to the question "what are the two tiers"

Serpentstooth · 02/07/2025 10:49

Labour appears to be unceasingly inept, undermined by its own members. I assume they hired the whole of the Tory comms team as they filed out of the door with their P45s after the last election and are wondering why everyone hates them. Get a grip, Labour. Hire some staff that know how to use the media in your favour or you won't see a 2nd term.

Allisnotlost1 · 02/07/2025 10:50

DorothyandtheWizard · 02/07/2025 09:36

So you start your post by saying anyone who disagrees with you is thick, basically?

Not a good argument.

There is not one member of the cabinet who has had a proper job- mostly they have spent their lives in politics, think tanks and unions.

Their inexperience of the world is the issue.

Edited

Surely being in politics is really excellent training for being in politics? What would you prefer? Experts in medicine, economics or business? Blame Boris and Gove for the lack of those, everyone is sick of experts they said.

Sabire9 · 02/07/2025 10:50

Soulfulunfurling · 02/07/2025 10:40

I couldn’t care less for reform but you can literally see boat loads of people washing up, if you care to take a walk along any coast line in Kent. Or do you believe you are being lied to every evening on the news? Asssuming you find live anywhere near here. Do you suppose they are simple lies?

Since 2018 on average 25K people have arrived every year on small boats - that's the average, though there have been huge variations from year to year, month to month.

The peak numbers for regular migration - by which is meant people coming through the regular channels, often with a visa, has varied between about 400K and 900K per year since about 2018.

But you're very anxious about the 'boat people', hmm?

mutinyonthetwix · 02/07/2025 10:51

Parker231 · 02/07/2025 10:44

We gave the Tories 14 years and they damaged the country from which it’s unlikely to recover for decades.
Who would you prefer - Reform

Honestly maybe.

Conservatives didn't have a clue. It's beyond any doubt now Labour doesn't have any ideas.

I probably sit somewhere in the lib dem to left Tory bit of the political spectrum but I am close to saying "sod it" and giving the mystery box of Reform a go because there is just nothing else.

AnonymousBleep · 02/07/2025 10:51

Hesperatum · 02/07/2025 10:12

Have people forgotten how the Conservatives wrecked the country? This is a pattern oft repeated. Conservatives squirrel money away to their cronies and let public services rot. Labour comes in and try to rebuild those services and help those less well paid. The public rage that things are not happening quickly enough and the Conservatives, promising the earth, are re-elected. Labour scored an own goal with the winter fuel fiasco - really did not think this through. I am no particular fan of Keir Starmer but I think he’s basically a decent man, who’s stuck between a rock and a hard place with both sides of his party vying to be heard and causing mayhem. The alternative seems to be Farage (god help us) or whoever leads the Conservatives at the next election.

This!

There have definitely been a few missteps - I think raising NI for employers was a mistake, as were the winter fuel repayments, and the proposed welfare reforms have been badly judged - but everyone seems to have forgotten the millions and millions of pounds of public money that were just given to Tory cronies under the cover of Covid. We paid for that! Of course the country is now bloody skint. It'll take more than 12 months to fix, too.

BIossomtoes · 02/07/2025 10:51

RosesAndHellebores · 02/07/2025 10:01

The world would be a better place if she were still working as a carer.

It would be poorer in my opinion. I want politicians with a basic understanding of what life’s like for millions of people in this country.

nomoreforks · 02/07/2025 10:51

Keir Starmer has an impossible job. I think that one of the key problems is that the electorate don't understand how precarious our financial situation is. Austerity won't be a policy it will be an unavoidable reality for us all. I can see Keir being forced out, Angela Rayner being the new PM and Reform getting to power next time. Worrying times.

Sabire9 · 02/07/2025 10:51

@DorothyandtheWizard

Being an MP or a member of government is a 'proper job' ffs.

Stop repeating far right culture war nonsense about politics.

ShouldWeGoAway · 02/07/2025 10:53

If Starmer “falls,” it will say far more about the state of public patience than the calibre of leadership.
He’s cleaning up a wreck decades in the making. Labour inherited a scorched-earth economy, broken institutions, and public trust at rock bottom.

Reform thrives on outrage, not solutions — all slogans, no substance.

And blaming Rachel Reeves while ignoring the Tories' trillion-pound legacy is not analysis, it’s deflection. The country didn’t collapse in a year.

We all need to grow up politically — and that starts with showing up, voting, and holding all parties to account. Not fantasising about protest parties with zero credible plans.

Soulfulunfurling · 02/07/2025 10:53

Sabire9 · 02/07/2025 10:50

Since 2018 on average 25K people have arrived every year on small boats - that's the average, though there have been huge variations from year to year, month to month.

The peak numbers for regular migration - by which is meant people coming through the regular channels, often with a visa, has varied between about 400K and 900K per year since about 2018.

But you're very anxious about the 'boat people', hmm?

Edited

You are being ridiculous if you think the huge numbers of people here are all turning up on ‘boats’ as if that is the the only option!

No one can seriously be this uninformed? Hmm, as to imagine they all rock up and immediately alert the authorities therefore providing accurate statistics for us all…god help us.

AnonymousBleep · 02/07/2025 10:53

mutinyonthetwix · 02/07/2025 10:51

Honestly maybe.

Conservatives didn't have a clue. It's beyond any doubt now Labour doesn't have any ideas.

I probably sit somewhere in the lib dem to left Tory bit of the political spectrum but I am close to saying "sod it" and giving the mystery box of Reform a go because there is just nothing else.

But why would you do that? Reform are promising everything because none of their promises are funded. You can't offer tax cuts AND better public services, as they're confidently promising. They won't stop the boats. And Nigel Farage is a lone wolf who falls out with everyone he works with - and a lazy arse when it comes to the daily grind - and would be a disaster in government. Why, honestly, does that look like a good option? It would be Liz Truss all over again, but much worse.

miraxxx · 02/07/2025 10:54

ColinOfficeTrolley · 02/07/2025 06:53

I always think it's very telling when people parrot ridiculous nicknames for MPs. People who say 'Two Tier Kier' for example, sound as thick as mince.

I agree he has been a complete let down, but I would vote for the raving loony monster party before letting Reform get in.

Rather the economically illiterate, than the Tommy Robinson, protect our kids, St George's flag loving illiterate.

You are very much a part of the reason why the UK is a mess.

MoominUnderWater · 02/07/2025 10:54

Jennps · 02/07/2025 10:29

The rot started in 1997 when nu Labour got in. They opened the borders and killed off what was left of industry as well as dumbing down education. Not single decision that stood the test of time.
Start of uncontrolled mass immigration, devaluing degrees and graduate wages forcing everyone into university for pointless degrees, wage suppression through creating a massive welfare handout state by subsidizing low wages with tax credits, selling off the nation’s gold before gold prices sky rocketed, and just to top it off, destabilising the Iraq and Syria and engaging in war crimes.

Then came ‘Call me Dave’, a guy you would lot pay to clean out your shed, let alone run the country. Didn’t make a single good decision to grow the country.

‘Maybot’ took it up a notch by making a hash of Brexit over 3 long years and as if that wasn’t enough, wrote net 0 into legislation without any debate, condemning the country to permanent extortionate energy prices and killing off what left of manufacturing industry including steel.

Johnson was an absolute unmitigated disaster, letting in a million people a year, mostly unskilled migrants who are not even net contributors. Not to mention rampant corruption and stealing taxes to give to his Covid cronies. Two decades of shit leadership had finally taken its toll and.

Truss, the woman who was right about supply side reforms but had no clue how to make it happen. Through her incompetence, she even killed the credibility of the idea even though supply side reforms are exactly what this country needs to growth.

Rishi was frankly pointless. Having borrowed and printed a trillion pounds to pay for Covid corruption, leaving the country with nearly 20% inflation, he decided to bullshit his way through the next 2 years.

And now we have Two Tier. A man, who if x rayed, would turn out to be missing a spine. Who lives by the values of ‘if you don’t like my principles, I have these other ones’. Flanked by an entourage of comedians:

Rachel from accounts, who, when she’s not plagiarizing other people’s work or lying on her cv, is being accused of fiddling expenses at her previous employer and bunking off work. That’s who we have in charge of the nations finances.

Angela ‘I’d rather be scrapping outside the pub’ Rayner showing that no bar is low enough if you want to be in government.

David Lamey whose single brain cell is so lonely, it needs therapy.

Bridget Phillipson, a face that only a mother could employ. That, too, in a charity run by said parent. And this is who is in charge of educating the next generation.

Jonathan Reynolds, another alumni from ‘Rachel from accounts’ school of liars. He lied about having been a lawyer.

Yvette Cooper, like Diane Abbott when she was the shadow Home Secretary, with a minor saving grace that she can put her shoes on the right way around.

Louise ‘phones4me’ Haigh, running transport until someone realized that giving someone like that a portfolio with billions might look bad.

Red Miliband, who is killing off industry and letting every costs run away even more, so that his ‘green’ cronies can cash in.

Lucy ‘oi you’re racist’ Powell. Don’t mention grooming gangs at all in front of our enlightened culture secretary. She will call you a racist. She thinks calling out rape is dog whistle politics.

Lord Hermer, who as, attorney general, makes it his life’s mission to fight for terrorists to make sure that they can never be deported. Loves uncontrolled immigration. And generally doesn’t give two hoots about about anything other than protecting wrong ‘uns.

Basically this cohort of morons has been destroying this country for 27 years. This government, though, gives the term ‘shower of shite’ a whole new meaning.

Edited

I think I probably agree with 95% of this.

The question is what now? You said are the economically illiterate ready for Reform? I'm assuming you don't think they'll be any better from an economy pov? I reckon most of their "candidates" couldn't run a piss up in a brewery/haven't had any experience of high level, decent jobs in the real world.

So what do we do? How do we as a country get out this mess?

Or are we fucked.

I read in a few years time that house ownership and even buying a car will be out of reach of most middle class people. Is that what we want for our kids? That a teacher/nurse/etc can't afford to buy a car never mind a house??????

EasternStandard · 02/07/2025 10:54

GasPanic · 02/07/2025 10:42

So the left are conspiring and kicking off against him.

Which is what everyone other than the Labour supporters said would happen.

The problem is that a left wing agenda normally requires a massive amount of state spending. But the state can't borrow money. And the right of Labour don't want to tax because it will make them too unpopular and lose the next election.

So they are stuck between a rock and a hard place. It will be this struggle, reining in spending against a backdrop of left wing complaints that will define politics over the next few years.

Starmer finished ? I don't think so. But it's more than a flesh wound.

Yes I think so too. Those MPs will keep demanding more and we can’t borrow more.

dottiehens · 02/07/2025 10:54

MrsBennetsPoorNerves · 02/07/2025 08:16

So you're going to be fooled into voting Reform next time?

How shit would that be eh? Imagine how bad Labour is doing that people are contemplating to vote for Reform.