Page 9 | To be done with Labour - no money will be saved

Viviennemary · 2025-07-01T17:54:22+00:00

I've just seen on ITV news that even if the bill goes through no money whatsoever will be saved. So it all seems a pretty pointless exercise. What on earth was the point of all this fuss and argument. Might have guessed this government would be a disaster. That huge majority and they can't get anything done. I hate to think what the UK will be like after 4 more years of this.

Jennps · 01/07/2025 22:06

ForWittyTealOP · 01/07/2025 22:04

My point is that it's the wealth created/tax paid that matters, not the individual creating the wealth or paying the tax. Not whatever garbled interpretation you've attributed to me to fit your odd agenda.

Hth.

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So how do you create wealth without the wealth creators?

Rosepalmaviolets · 01/07/2025 22:07

@nearlylovemyusername I think Rod is right we need to give them a chance.

They have a few years to get their ducks in a row I can't vote tory and I can't vote Labour

ForWittyTealOP · 01/07/2025 22:09

Livelovebehappy · 01/07/2025 22:01

But the daily figure of 1000 new PIP claimants suggests otherwise. And I’m not sure about having people who are disabled leading the way to decide on processes involving benefits for the disabled, is a good thing. There’s obviously not going to be much compromise going on, or rational discussion, because they’re basically going to be voting on something that affects themselves on a personal level. Maybe input about real lived experiences of certain disabilities, but other than that, not really appropriate or workable.

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No decisions about us without us.

Why are PIP claims going up? Myriad reasons. A collapsing health care system, threadbare or non-existent public services, lack of investment in preventative healthcare, low pay, benefits below subsistence level, high cost of living, housing crisis, COVID, ever-increasing inequality, an ageing population, better recognition of disabling conditions... the list goes on. Note I've not included as one of the reasons "massively increased numbers of skivers and scroungers" because despite what our current and previous governments would have us believe, that's really quite unlikely.

nearlylovemyusername · 01/07/2025 22:09

ForWittyTealOP · 01/07/2025 22:01

To add, you mean a third of income tax. Higher earners pay c 29% of income tax (not a third) and income tax makes up c 25% of government revenue. In any case, it's a mark of inequality that such a few people are being paid enough that they pay 29% of all income tax even if that is a minority of income tax take. It means income is unacceptably unequal in the UK and should be more evenly distributed.

Edited

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Great idea! Let's pay all Tesco stockers wages on neurosurgeons, or better CEOs.

ForWittyTealOP · 01/07/2025 22:09

Jennps · 01/07/2025 22:06

So how do you create wealth without the wealth creators?

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Oh please try to read and understand so you no longer have to waste my time.

ForWittyTealOP · 01/07/2025 22:11

nearlylovemyusername · 01/07/2025 22:06

So you push out wealth creators to emigrate, you expect new wave to come and replace them. But this new wave will face the same issues which forced the first one to move. Dare to elaborate?

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Dare?
Maybe explain very clearly why the opposite would happen?

nearlylovemyusername · 01/07/2025 22:11

Rosepalmaviolets · 01/07/2025 22:07

@nearlylovemyusername I think Rod is right we need to give them a chance.

They have a few years to get their ducks in a row I can't vote tory and I can't vote Labour

I'm sorry but I'd rather chop my hand than vote for Reform.
Reading news from US you know... not excited.

User32459 · 01/07/2025 22:11

People who voted Labour last year have got a lot to answer for.

User37482 · 01/07/2025 22:11

ForWittyTealOP · 01/07/2025 22:04

My point is that it's the wealth created/tax paid that matters, not the individual creating the wealth or paying the tax. Not whatever garbled interpretation you've attributed to me to fit your odd agenda.

Hth.

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No I repeated back exactly what you said.

You need the conditions for wealth creation to happen or to attract it in FDI, if you are losing wealth creators, thats generally a bad sign.

I would have thought that was obvious. I don’t have an agenda, it’s common sense.

ForWittyTealOP · 01/07/2025 22:12

mutinyonthetwix · 01/07/2025 22:06

Oh I see.

Yes I have read the link. The link which I provided to you. The link you weren't aware of the existence as of fifteen minutes ago and which you had for an entire two minutes before coming up with a very simplistic interpretation. Thank you.

Are you trying to make some sort of point?

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So you posted it, you've read it and you doubt it says what it says? Why?

It's funny that you took my comment as an entire interpretation. Very arrogant of you.

Original poster

Viviennemary · 01/07/2025 22:12

It's apparently actually going to cost more. There's a surprise. Cost cutting Labour style. What an utter fiasco. They're going to get a big shock at the next election. Shame it's 4 years away. If It was now they'd be out.

OP posts:

nearlylovemyusername · 01/07/2025 22:13

ForWittyTealOP · 01/07/2025 22:11

Dare?
Maybe explain very clearly why the opposite would happen?

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oh irony

EasternStandard · 01/07/2025 22:13

User37482 · 01/07/2025 22:11

No I repeated back exactly what you said.

You need the conditions for wealth creation to happen or to attract it in FDI, if you are losing wealth creators, thats generally a bad sign.

I would have thought that was obvious. I don’t have an agenda, it’s common sense.

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Agree with you on that.

PassingStranger · 01/07/2025 22:13

People should be assessed for pip face to face.

Cornishpotato · 01/07/2025 22:13

User37482 · 01/07/2025 21:54

The argument is it’s fine if rich people leave because they will just be replaced by different rich people?

Did I misunderstand something?

If a rich person dies in the UK their business is often still left running and still generating wealth. If a rich person packs all their stuff up and relocates everything we permanently lose out. If we create the conditions that basically make it expensive to employ people, expensive to set up and run businesses, try to tax overseas assets then no we aren’t a magnet for entrepreneurs are we?

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Sadly the family firm inheritance tax changes will be reducing the number of firms that can keep running.

Madness.

ForWittyTealOP · 01/07/2025 22:13

User37482 · 01/07/2025 22:11

No I repeated back exactly what you said.

You need the conditions for wealth creation to happen or to attract it in FDI, if you are losing wealth creators, thats generally a bad sign.

I would have thought that was obvious. I don’t have an agenda, it’s common sense.

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Right so explain clearly what the conditions are and how the current government is working against what we're variously calling "the wealthy" "higher rate tax payers" and so on.

User32459 · 01/07/2025 22:13

Cornishpotato · 01/07/2025 21:56

Agree, I'm going hopefully by the end of this tax year, then it's three years to break tax residency, which only really matters if you want to return to visit for any length of time.
The country is a leaky sieve of money.

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Labour's way of getting net migration down. Import a million low skilled immigrations a year still, and the hordes in their boats, but let anyone with wealth just up and leave.

Labour are destroying Britain.

ForWittyTealOP · 01/07/2025 22:14

nearlylovemyusername · 01/07/2025 22:13

oh irony

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Ah ok not a problem. TTFN.

Rosepalmaviolets · 01/07/2025 22:14

Well I feel labour and tory have run out road.
If I was in reform I'd have the best people looking at all these problems from a fresh point of view and fresh thoughts

User32459 · 01/07/2025 22:14

Viviennemary · 01/07/2025 22:12

It's apparently actually going to cost more. There's a surprise. Cost cutting Labour style. What an utter fiasco. They're going to get a big shock at the next election. Shame it's 4 years away. If It was now they'd be out.

There won't be a country left in 4 years. They have to be kicked out before then.

ForWittyTealOP · 01/07/2025 22:15

nearlylovemyusername · 01/07/2025 22:09

Great idea! Let's pay all Tesco stockers wages on neurosurgeons, or better CEOs.

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Please don't waste my time with inane comments.

mutinyonthetwix · 01/07/2025 22:15

ForWittyTealOP · 01/07/2025 22:12

So you posted it, you've read it and you doubt it says what it says? Why?

It's funny that you took my comment as an entire interpretation. Very arrogant of you.

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Where did I express any doubt over what it says?

Spartahori · 01/07/2025 22:17

Cannongoose · 01/07/2025 20:56

Some of the remarks upthread come very close to suggesting that people with disabilities or care needs should receive no support.
there is a lot of misinformation about matters like cars - meaning cars obtained via the charity Motability.
anyone qualifying for a Motability car must higher rate DLA for mobility or PIP.
I Think a lot of people think - PIP or DLA is taxpayers money and so the “workers” are paying for a free car…
But they aren’t any more than if those specific parts of those specific benefits went on train fares or taxi fares.
at the end of a lease period the new Motability car goes back to Motability who then sell it as a used car.
the person using that leased car never owns it unless they can buy it at the end of a lease period.
The value of the car is irrelevant because by the time the leaseholder has paid a down payment (in my daughter’s case almost £3,000) and Motability obtain the mobility component of DLA every month the charity has £28,800 per car, excluding the deposit and then sells it on.
Sadly, as in my daughter’s case, some people will never work. She will also never eat, never walk, never talk, never graduate or go on holiday by herself, never have a partner or family and may possibly die young.
Begrudging that expense because- currently- the very wealthy are leaving the UK (probably temporarily and of course to benefit themselves) or thinking that there should be NO WELFARE state at all, leaves me thinking that people shouting about the issues they raise here (concern for the economy and “workers”) have perhaps an optimism that their need for wheelchairs or carers or Motability cars or disabled rights and funding could just never happen to them. As if a catastrophic accident or illness couldn’t place them and their families where people like me find themselves- unable to work full time, spending more than I earn and with carers allowance and DLA too to try to survive. Never to have shame or sadness because of lack of earning power because of events beyond your control.
lots of people voted Tory for too long. Labour can’t work miracles.
But voting for Reform would be a slow death sentence for so many people who didn’t ask to be where or how they are.

It’s not that people WANT no welfare, it’s just that that’s where we are headed thanks to the rebel MPs and their refusal to acknowledge that the current welfare offering is unaffordable. We cannot keep on handing out the same amount of money to an ever increasing amount of people. Those that lend us money in the bond markets see us spending way more than we can afford and will only agree to lend at an incredibly high interest rate.

There is no more money. We cannot spend more money. And when the bond market goes pop, every single item of welfare will go pop too. These idiot rebel MPs are indeed turkeys voting for Christmas.

ForWittyTealOP · 01/07/2025 22:18

mutinyonthetwix · 01/07/2025 22:15

Where did I express any doubt over what it says?

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"If you say so"

Either you were expressing disbelief or being pointlessly rude. Yes it does show an ageing population hence the situation where a significant number of households aren't net contributors. Presumably you posted it at least in part to show that? So why the arsey comment?

Mintsj · 01/07/2025 22:19

Sadcafe · 01/07/2025 19:47

Just talked about all this with OH , one year in, illegal immigration massively up, welfare bill skyrocketing and any attempt to halt derailed, NHS still in a state, list just goes on, struggling to see what they have actually achieved

Well their VAT on private schools has got some teachers made redundant. My relative works in a private school and there’s been a horrible scene of crying teachers being told no more job. One of them has 3 kids (incl SN) and a sick husband to support. Well the state will be supporting that family now because that woman is totally broken.