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Original poster

To be done with Labour - no money will be saved

429 replies

Viviennemary · 01/07/2025 18:54

I've just seen on ITV news that even if the bill goes through no money whatsoever will be saved. So it all seems a pretty pointless exercise. What on earth was the point of all this fuss and argument. Might have guessed this government would be a disaster. That huge majority and they can't get anything done.

I hate to think what the UK will be like after 4 more years of this.

OP posts:
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7
Sunholidays · 01/07/2025 21:38

ProudCat · 01/07/2025 19:21

I don't understand your point. We live in a democracy. The government are meant to represent the people. The bill is delayed while the democratic process occurs. Are you saying that you'd rather live in a dictatorship?

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What?

Livelovebehappy · 01/07/2025 21:38

ItWillWash · 01/07/2025 21:21

Most of the 1 in 4 are retired, you know that right?

Sickness and disability does tend to happen as one ages.

Only 23% of working-age adults are disabled, and of those 53% are working.

I really wish people would start investigating the figures the media quotes. They are deliberately taken out of context for shock value.

There isn't a mass exodus of millionaires, and a quarter of the working-age population are not claiming PIP for anxiety. If something you read sounds shocking, you could safely bet on it being untrue.

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‘Only 23%’?? Nearly a quarter of working age people are registered as disabled, and with 1000 PIP claims being accepted daily, it doesn’t take a genius to work out that that percentage is going to go up pretty quickly. And more potential future claimants with a few hundred working age men entering the UK on boats this week. Another let down by the Labour government. After today’s watered down proposals for sorting out the mad situation with PIP/disability, us workers not claiming off the state need to buckle our belts for the definite tax rises coming our way in the Autumn.

letsallchant · 01/07/2025 21:39

Jennps · 01/07/2025 19:44

Disability related welfare, and all welfare in this country is out of control. There are over 1000 additional people a day going on disability related benefits. Generally, more than 50% of people now take more out of the system than pay.

The welfare system needs cutting down. Drastically. Disability related benefits would be a good start, before the country ends up with a Greek style crash, where money markets decide that we simply cannot afford to run this country anymore.

The proposal was to cut £5b from welfare, the country spends more than £1tn a year so £5b would be a drop in the ocean. The socialist Labour MPs, most of whom have never done a real day’s work or have any experience of working in the real economy decided that they wouldn’t support it. Supine Starmer and Rachel from accounts decided it was too much like hard work and gave up.

Massive tax rises are coming.

Edited
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Link us to some evidence please that 'more than 50% of people now take more out of the system than pay'?

KateMiskin · 01/07/2025 21:39

So get the net contributors then. As our own young are off being depressed or ADHD or NEET.

Fix the loopholes in skilled worker visas. Every other country is trying to woo talent

MumofCandRA · 01/07/2025 21:40

User37482 · 01/07/2025 19:32

I actually don’t think I can watch another 4 years of this. The utter fucking shambles the UK is going to be in a few more years just makes me feel queasy. It’s unbearable to think about what a correction to all this is going to look like.

I wonder how long Starmer has before he’s deposed.

As opposed to the shambles created by the previous clowns? Rose tinted specs and all that...

nearlylovemyusername · 01/07/2025 21:40

ItWillWash · 01/07/2025 21:21

Most of the 1 in 4 are retired, you know that right?

Sickness and disability does tend to happen as one ages.

Only 23% of working-age adults are disabled, and of those 53% are working.

I really wish people would start investigating the figures the media quotes. They are deliberately taken out of context for shock value.

There isn't a mass exodus of millionaires, and a quarter of the working-age population are not claiming PIP for anxiety. If something you read sounds shocking, you could safely bet on it being untrue.

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The post above says "working age"

Katemax82 · 01/07/2025 21:41

Lioncub2020 · 01/07/2025 20:49

I not really sure we know what his policies are. Undo the two child cap to get elected then ban poor people from having kids so that it doesn't matter. I wouldn't be surprised if that was a Farage policy.

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What a stupid comment

ForWittyTealOP · 01/07/2025 21:42

User37482 · 01/07/2025 21:37

We are still losing people, if it gets worse we will lose more. If we are talking about people who contribute a significant amount to the country. We should be trying to attract more millionaires not be losing some and then going “ah well they are bastards anyway, who needs them.” An old person in an expensive home is not the same as someone who employs people or who invests in our markets.

Everything this government is doing is anti growth and anti jobs. We don’t get richer by expanding the state.

They complain about a blackhole then give away pay rises to public sector workers in exchange for zero. They whack up taxes on jobs, they are trying to pass an unsafe euthansia bill which they have hurried through. They are an utter shitshow. As pointed out before gilts are now higher than when Liz Truss apparently crashed the economy (but it’s fine cos it’s a labour). They can’t decide if VAT on private schools will be for schools or housing. More tax rises will have to come because Labour will not cut spending on anything. The

This is not about ideology it is about competence. I’ve voted labour, conservative, lib dem and this is honestly the worst government I have ever seen.

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Those people are being replaced. It's not specific individuals we need. It's just people to pay tax. I'm sure nobody could sensibly argue that if one wealthy person/higher rate tax payer/ inventive entrepreneur leaves the UK, that's a permanent net loss. What happens when they die?

User37482 · 01/07/2025 21:42

MumofCandRA · 01/07/2025 21:40

As opposed to the shambles created by the previous clowns? Rose tinted specs and all that...

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Things are getting worse not better. I understand that many people are extremely ideological here. i’ve always been a floating voter but honestly how can you look at any of this and think this is what “good” looks like.

I thought it was time for the tories to go, I wasn’t confident about Labour but I didn’t expect them to be this bad.

Sunshineandrainbow · 01/07/2025 21:42

Popsicle1981 · 01/07/2025 21:16

I feel deflated. With 1 in 4 working age claiming to be disabled, and large proportion getting 800 a month - maybe I should join them? What do you need that money for if you have anxiety, depression or ADHD? Meanwhile, my children struggle to earn, work, save. They’ll never own a house. They will just be stuck paying for all of this.

And then I have just had to watch MPs at the house of commons saying that had to ‘vote with their hearts’. No, I need you to vote with your dang head. How about thinking about the hard working taxpayer who feels like a cashcow right now.

Agree, I often have anxiety and mild depression, always just thought that was part of life. I guess severity differs and I am able to get on and function the best I can. I also like routine.

I do sometimes wonder how long I can work full time plus 2 evenings a week to pay my rent and keep a roof over our head. It is bloody exhausting the older I get! I am the just about managing!

I find it shocking and have heard it in real life people filling in applications for people as they know what to say for the right result.

Don't know what the answer is I am afraid.

DrowningInSyrup · 01/07/2025 21:42

TwigletsAndRadishes · 01/07/2025 21:33

We do have an ageing population, it's true. We also have a ridiculous number of people claiming PIP for autism, ADHD, anxiety and MH problems that just was not the case 10 years ago.

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Go and spend some time in an acute psychiatric ward and see if you think these people are able to work. They don't get benefits for being a bit sad or bit anxious. They get benefits because they cannot function in normal society. The need care in their own homes, just as people who are wheelchair bound or blind may do. I'm sure they wish that they weren't a burden on society. They really did get the shit end of the stick, because not only do they suffer with a crippling condition, they also are dismissed as not being worthy of help. PIP assesors take a deep dive into medical notes, they don't just award money for being on an SSRI, or taking a bit of diazepam.

ForWittyTealOP · 01/07/2025 21:43

Livelovebehappy · 01/07/2025 21:38

‘Only 23%’?? Nearly a quarter of working age people are registered as disabled, and with 1000 PIP claims being accepted daily, it doesn’t take a genius to work out that that percentage is going to go up pretty quickly. And more potential future claimants with a few hundred working age men entering the UK on boats this week. Another let down by the Labour government. After today’s watered down proposals for sorting out the mad situation with PIP/disability, us workers not claiming off the state need to buckle our belts for the definite tax rises coming our way in the Autumn.

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Where is the national disability register held?

Livelovebehappy · 01/07/2025 21:43

ForWittyTealOP · 01/07/2025 21:37

If people are claiming PIP for any condition, it's because they've met the threshold for entitlement. PIP is not awarded on the basis of diagnosis but on how someone is affected by their disability or condition.

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Then the threshold needs tweaking….

Jennps · 01/07/2025 21:45

DrowningInSyrup · 01/07/2025 21:42

Go and spend some time in an acute psychiatric ward and see if you think these people are able to work. They don't get benefits for being a bit sad or bit anxious. They get benefits because they cannot function in normal society. The need care in their own homes, just as people who are wheelchair bound or blind may do. I'm sure they wish that they weren't a burden on society. They really did get the shit end of the stick, because not only do they suffer with a crippling condition, they also are dismissed as not being worthy of help. PIP assesors take a deep dive into medical notes, they don't just award money for being on an SSRI, or taking a bit of diazepam.

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More strawman arguments.

Why would visiting an acute ward help?

Is every single person out of the millions claiming PIP residing there?

User37482 · 01/07/2025 21:45

ForWittyTealOP · 01/07/2025 21:42

Those people are being replaced. It's not specific individuals we need. It's just people to pay tax. I'm sure nobody could sensibly argue that if one wealthy person/higher rate tax payer/ inventive entrepreneur leaves the UK, that's a permanent net loss. What happens when they die?

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I don’t know how to respond to this belief that people with money leaving is an indicator of fertile ground for people who like to generate money. Seems utterly contradictory to me.

IfYouPutASausageInItItsNotAViennetta · 01/07/2025 21:46

Lioncub2020 · 01/07/2025 21:03

No they came in strong but have backtracked on almost everything other than the tax rises. Now we have more tax rises to come. So disappointed. It leaves no other options. Tories are too weak, Labour too weak, lib dems will just add more carriages to the gravy train. Reform is the only option left.

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That's unfair: they also backtracked on the tax rises that they promised not to bring in, until they'd been safely elected.

ForWittyTealOP · 01/07/2025 21:49

Livelovebehappy · 01/07/2025 21:43

Then the threshold needs tweaking….

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Most, if not all disability organisations recognise that PIP is a difficult benefit to claim. Perhaps you're right that the criteria need to be reviewed as they are not designed to meet the needs of actual disabled people and certainly not with the dignity or humanity of the claimant in mind. Scotland is currently leading the way on getting disabled people involved in decision making about processes that affect them I believe. In the rest of the UK a paternalistic attitude holds sway where disabled people are treated as lesser beings who need decisions made on their behalf.

ForWittyTealOP · 01/07/2025 21:49

User37482 · 01/07/2025 21:45

I don’t know how to respond to this belief that people with money leaving is an indicator of fertile ground for people who like to generate money. Seems utterly contradictory to me.

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No need to respond to something you made up all by yourself!

MyNameIsX · 01/07/2025 21:50

Labour made this personal and vindictive from the off.

Targeting private school kids, pensioners, SME’s etc.

They can expect no quarter given in return.

LlynTegid · 01/07/2025 21:50

This government has been poor. Does not understand politics and has a disconnect with many backbenchers.

The previous one was much worse. Remember they unlawfully suspended Parliament, never mind the Covid mismanagement (which I think led to over 20,000 avoidable deaths).

ForWittyTealOP · 01/07/2025 21:51

mutinyonthetwix · 01/07/2025 21:47

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/personalandhouseholdfinances/incomeandwealth/bulletins/theeffectsoftaxesandbenefitsonhouseholdincome/financialyearending2023#:~:text=In%20FYE%202023%2C%2052.6%25%20of,trend%20seen%20since%20FYE%202021

Not sure this is particularly remarkable though. I'd be more surprised if it were the other way round given you have pensioners in the mix and about a third of working age adults are below the income tax threshold.

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This tells us that we have an ageing population.

nearlylovemyusername · 01/07/2025 21:52

@letsallchant
Link us to some evidence please that 'more than 50% of people now take more out of the system than pay'?

Effects of taxes and benefits on UK household income - Office for National Statistics

"The proportion of people living in households receiving more in benefits than they paid in taxes decreased from 53.6% to 52.6%"

Summary Statistics - GOV.UK

"the top 50% of Income Tax payers were liable for 90.5% of total Income Tax in 2020 to 2021,"

"the top 1% of Income Tax payers were liable for 29.1% of total Income Tax in 2020 to 2021"

EasternStandard · 01/07/2025 21:52

KateMiskin · 01/07/2025 21:34

I always thought Rishi was a twat but I may yet be proved wrong.

What’s your view on Starmer?

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