Page 24 | HR rejected grievance I made against Colleague

changeme4this · 02/07/2025 01:33

brunettemic · 01/07/2025 22:49

No it wouldn’t, that’s laughable. Have you ever investigated or heard a grievance? I can tell you this doesn’t even come close.

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Yes I have. Larger companies have strict protocols to follow, regardless of how any of us felt. He would have been told to be careful in future…

however I suspect that’s not the outcome OP desires and it’s come as a bit of a shock.

immalesorry · 02/07/2025 06:21

Sorry, bloke here. I think the OP is getting an unjustified "kicking" here. As a one off comment it would absolutely be an over-reaction to take this to HR. But the OP has demonstrated that this is a pattern of behaviour, and it is this pattern of behaviour that motivated the reporting, not this individual comment. If the male manager is "in on the joke" with this guy (as they so often are) then it's hardly surprising that the OP didn't see mileage in taking it up with him. This bloke would, in my opinion, have been entirely aware of the innuendo he was making. I've worked in a mixed office environment for decades, and sadly creeps like this do occur. The more this behaviour is accommodated, the more they feel enabled, and the more they do it. It's a form of bullying, and I'm amazed that HR were so unprofessional to only investigate this single incident and not the underlying pattern. The input of the various HR types on this thread supporting the creep cement, in my mind, the general view of HR departments of them being there to promote the interests of the company, and screw the employees (in this case by choosing not antagonize the male employees and rock the boat).

Personally, I think the @RockNRoll25 should be commended for raising the issue, both here and at work. You'd think mumsnet would be a safe space to do this, but clearly there's a lot of people "of a certain age" here, who went through this sort of treatment themselves, and think everyone else should have to. Well, they're wrong. Shame on you.

Loubelou71 · 02/07/2025 06:26

What action did you want HR to take? Could you have made it clear to him directly this wasn't appropriate before taking it further?

ArabellaScott · 02/07/2025 06:51

immalesorry · 02/07/2025 06:21

Sorry, bloke here. I think the OP is getting an unjustified "kicking" here. As a one off comment it would absolutely be an over-reaction to take this to HR. But the OP has demonstrated that this is a pattern of behaviour, and it is this pattern of behaviour that motivated the reporting, not this individual comment. If the male manager is "in on the joke" with this guy (as they so often are) then it's hardly surprising that the OP didn't see mileage in taking it up with him. This bloke would, in my opinion, have been entirely aware of the innuendo he was making. I've worked in a mixed office environment for decades, and sadly creeps like this do occur. The more this behaviour is accommodated, the more they feel enabled, and the more they do it. It's a form of bullying, and I'm amazed that HR were so unprofessional to only investigate this single incident and not the underlying pattern. The input of the various HR types on this thread supporting the creep cement, in my mind, the general view of HR departments of them being there to promote the interests of the company, and screw the employees (in this case by choosing not antagonize the male employees and rock the boat).

Personally, I think the @RockNRoll25 should be commended for raising the issue, both here and at work. You'd think mumsnet would be a safe space to do this, but clearly there's a lot of people "of a certain age" here, who went through this sort of treatment themselves, and think everyone else should have to. Well, they're wrong. Shame on you.

Edited

You were doing pretty well until the last paragraph. Ageism is just as bad as sexism. Shame on you.

immalesorry · 02/07/2025 06:53

Loubelou71 · 02/07/2025 06:26

What action did you want HR to take? Could you have made it clear to him directly this wasn't appropriate before taking it further?

Yeah, no. If you read what the OP said, and her follow ups, then this is a pattern of behaviour from an enabled bully. There's nothing such people like more than to know they're getting to their target. They also love playing the wounded victim. Have you ever been the constant butt of someone's jibes wrapped up as "jokes"? They love the "can't you take a joke" defence, reflecting the blame back to their victim. That HR failed to see through this individual (or, rather, decided to be complicit) reveals pretty well the sort of culture of this organisation. Personally, I'd be looking for an alternative workplace.

As for those (not you) who are saying "is this your first job", I'd have to wonder how much employment experience they've had themselves, unless of course, they ARE these sorts of bullies. Which would explain a lot.

ceejmo · 02/07/2025 07:25

RockNRoll25 · 30/06/2025 18:11

Looking for a bit of a hand hold. I submitted a grievance against a male colleague for a comment he made about me which was sexual in nature. HR have investigated and closed the case after speaking to him and accepting his explanation that his comment wasn’t sexual. It absolutely was an inappropriate innuendo and I’m really surprised by the response.

Has anyone been in a similar position - would you try to find another job, or ask to be moved teams?

What are you expecting to happen to him, exactly? You think they’re going to fire him, for a comment, that he’s apologised for?

Jeez, give the guy a break.

There’s obviously a lot more to it, than you’re letting on. Women tend to only be this vengeful when there is some kind of history with the person.

Look, women in offices do inappropriate things as well. It’s just that society views it differently - the sexual comment are considered “cheeky” and the hugging and grabbing is considered friendly. If women had the same accountability standards as men, then half of you would be in prison.

As I said at the start, you probably have a history with this guy. In my experience, that’s the only scenario when women are that obsessed with vengeance

Gettingbysomehow · 02/07/2025 07:57

ArabellaScott · 02/07/2025 06:51

You were doing pretty well until the last paragraph. Ageism is just as bad as sexism. Shame on you.

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I'm 63 and that definitely is ageism. I don't think anyone should tolerate sexual abuse. The abuse I went through in my 20s was awful and I'd want to protect someone from that and I have done that. I just can't see this as sexual abuse. As women we are never free from SA no matter how old we are. I was flashed by a much younger colleague who swung his penis in my face when we were in a room alone. He thought it would be funny to "show me some young meat". 5 minutes later he regretted the day he was born.

ilexgranita · 02/07/2025 09:35

immalesorry · 02/07/2025 06:21

Sorry, bloke here. I think the OP is getting an unjustified "kicking" here. As a one off comment it would absolutely be an over-reaction to take this to HR. But the OP has demonstrated that this is a pattern of behaviour, and it is this pattern of behaviour that motivated the reporting, not this individual comment. If the male manager is "in on the joke" with this guy (as they so often are) then it's hardly surprising that the OP didn't see mileage in taking it up with him. This bloke would, in my opinion, have been entirely aware of the innuendo he was making. I've worked in a mixed office environment for decades, and sadly creeps like this do occur. The more this behaviour is accommodated, the more they feel enabled, and the more they do it. It's a form of bullying, and I'm amazed that HR were so unprofessional to only investigate this single incident and not the underlying pattern. The input of the various HR types on this thread supporting the creep cement, in my mind, the general view of HR departments of them being there to promote the interests of the company, and screw the employees (in this case by choosing not antagonize the male employees and rock the boat).

Personally, I think the @RockNRoll25 should be commended for raising the issue, both here and at work. You'd think mumsnet would be a safe space to do this, but clearly there's a lot of people "of a certain age" here, who went through this sort of treatment themselves, and think everyone else should have to. Well, they're wrong. Shame on you.

Edited

Thanks! What we really needed was a man to come along and set us all straight. Keep up the good work!

fiddyfence · 02/07/2025 09:56

immalesorry · 02/07/2025 06:21

Sorry, bloke here. I think the OP is getting an unjustified "kicking" here. As a one off comment it would absolutely be an over-reaction to take this to HR. But the OP has demonstrated that this is a pattern of behaviour, and it is this pattern of behaviour that motivated the reporting, not this individual comment. If the male manager is "in on the joke" with this guy (as they so often are) then it's hardly surprising that the OP didn't see mileage in taking it up with him. This bloke would, in my opinion, have been entirely aware of the innuendo he was making. I've worked in a mixed office environment for decades, and sadly creeps like this do occur. The more this behaviour is accommodated, the more they feel enabled, and the more they do it. It's a form of bullying, and I'm amazed that HR were so unprofessional to only investigate this single incident and not the underlying pattern. The input of the various HR types on this thread supporting the creep cement, in my mind, the general view of HR departments of them being there to promote the interests of the company, and screw the employees (in this case by choosing not antagonize the male employees and rock the boat).

Personally, I think the @RockNRoll25 should be commended for raising the issue, both here and at work. You'd think mumsnet would be a safe space to do this, but clearly there's a lot of people "of a certain age" here, who went through this sort of treatment themselves, and think everyone else should have to. Well, they're wrong. Shame on you.

Edited

An 'immalesorry' post, shaming "women of a certain age" for how they're responding to the topic of sexual harassment. The irony.

JessieLongleg · 02/07/2025 10:17

RockNRoll25 · 30/06/2025 18:20

Apologies, reading back it’s probably difficult to comment without the context.

Basically - I had a random day off and one of the things I was doing was getting my lip filler topped up. Most of my colleagues knew this. Another colleague asked me what I was doing with my day off (in ear shot of the colleague I complained about) and he said ‘she’s getting her lips pumped’.

He is the oldest member on the team and makes inappropriate jokes most days which people pass off as ‘that’s just X being X’. He knew exactly what he was doing making that comment.

Now you what it lips for natural big lips. At the end of the day lip filler is being used to create a pumped sexy look.

JessieLongleg · 02/07/2025 10:19

JessieLongleg · 02/07/2025 10:17

Now you what it lips for natural big lips. At the end of the day lip filler is being used to create a pumped sexy look.

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I get sexual looks and comment all the time I'm not saying it right. Men seem weak to me at times.

Jonesboot · 02/07/2025 10:27

If this man has form for inappropriate comments it is an issue, but so far nobody has been offended enough to raise it with HR. I don't see anything wrong with this particular comment he made about Op, and could see myself easily saying the same words. The lips were pumped up in the procedure. Maybe the problem is that someone should stand up and speak out against his more obvious actions?
Op could 'keep a log' going forward, bearing in mind that no disciplinary action will be taken if just one person is offended, and during investigation any witnesses refute what they say.

ExercicenformedeZ · 02/07/2025 10:38

Jonesboot · 02/07/2025 10:27

If this man has form for inappropriate comments it is an issue, but so far nobody has been offended enough to raise it with HR. I don't see anything wrong with this particular comment he made about Op, and could see myself easily saying the same words. The lips were pumped up in the procedure. Maybe the problem is that someone should stand up and speak out against his more obvious actions?
Op could 'keep a log' going forward, bearing in mind that no disciplinary action will be taken if just one person is offended, and during investigation any witnesses refute what they say.

I think that OP should merely avoid this man and ignore him as much as possible. If she keeps a log or seems to be monitoring him, she could be the one finding herself in trouble as a vexatious complainer.

Helen483 · 02/07/2025 11:45

Gettingbysomehow · 02/07/2025 07:57

I'm 63 and that definitely is ageism. I don't think anyone should tolerate sexual abuse. The abuse I went through in my 20s was awful and I'd want to protect someone from that and I have done that. I just can't see this as sexual abuse. As women we are never free from SA no matter how old we are. I was flashed by a much younger colleague who swung his penis in my face when we were in a room alone. He thought it would be funny to "show me some young meat". 5 minutes later he regretted the day he was born.

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Now there's a story I'd like to hear more of 😁

I'm also in my 60s and I also experienced a certain amount of sexual innuendo as a young woman in the workplace (especially as a professional giving advice and/or instruction to older established male workers).

Back in those days you just learned to deal with it. Which doesn't make it right if course.

Helen483 · 02/07/2025 11:49

ilexgranita · 02/07/2025 09:35

Thanks! What we really needed was a man to come along and set us all straight. Keep up the good work!

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That's unkind and unnecessary. I thought @immalesorry 's post was helpful.

And it's precisely men that we need to recognise just how unpleasant this kind of low level harassment is and (crucially) express their disapproval (or at least don't laugh, like op's boss) when they hear it in the workplace.

ilexgranita · 02/07/2025 11:53

Helen483 · 02/07/2025 11:49

That's unkind and unnecessary. I thought @immalesorry 's post was helpful.

And it's precisely men that we need to recognise just how unpleasant this kind of low level harassment is and (crucially) express their disapproval (or at least don't laugh, like op's boss) when they hear it in the workplace.

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Oops, I forgot - we need to be kind to the men when they tell us how to think. Looks like you got the message, though.

okydokethen · 02/07/2025 11:54

@TheTeckniciani agree , an uncalled for quip but not something I would complain about.

Dinnerout · 02/07/2025 12:03

KrisAkabusi · 01/07/2025 22:09

To the many women who apparently don't understand the disgusting double meaning of this comment - be glad you don't interact with men who speak so crassly - and stop assuming that means there aren't any out there who do!

Plenty of people understand that there is a potential double meaning to it. But there is no way of knowing if he meant that it that way, or even knew that it exists. He used a common phrase in a factual way.

Yeah I'm not disputing that we can't be sure of his intention - I have my opinion on that but can't be certain!

I mean to the women (particularly the one who said my minds in the gutter and I'm the result of porn culture) who are acting as though people UNDERSTANDING the potential double entendre is disgusting or ridiculous. Those acting as though there IS NO double meaning and that those of us seeing one are simply filthy etc.

InterIgnis · 02/07/2025 12:09

ExercicenformedeZ · 02/07/2025 10:38

I think that OP should merely avoid this man and ignore him as much as possible. If she keeps a log or seems to be monitoring him, she could be the one finding herself in trouble as a vexatious complainer.

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This.

As far as HR investigating alleged patterns of behavior, they can only go by what is reported to them, and what there is evidence of. An allegation is not proof, and they’re not going to take disciplinary action against him simply because one was made. Doing so could, and likely would, have serious repercussions.

They did investigate, and they would have spoken to at least one colleague of OP’s. That they didn’t find in OP’s favour does not mean they neglected to do their job.

Dinnerout · 02/07/2025 12:13

OhMyMirror · 01/07/2025 18:29

Out of curiosity, OP are you Scottish...particularly from the West? I am and I would have absolutely taken that as sexual innuendo.

I am too and I'm wondering if this is where the disconnect is on this thread. That's a very clear meaning here. Didn't realise it was regional but it surely is as otherwise I don't understand how people are so (aggressively!) not 'getting it'.

And no, not if a tyre is being pumped. But lips? Yes.

Helen483 · 02/07/2025 12:30

ilexgranita · 02/07/2025 11:53

Oops, I forgot - we need to be kind to the men when they tell us how to think. Looks like you got the message, though.

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Don't be ridiculous. He wasn't telling us what to think, he was giving his viewpoint just like every other poster on the thread. This isn't a female only space, you know.

InterIgnis · 02/07/2025 12:34

I suspect it is. I’m not from the UK, but I lived and worked in London for a few years from being a teen. While I understand why it could be taken as innuendo, I’ve never heard ‘getting her lips pumped’ actually be used as such irl, or indeed used it in that way myself.

That particular meaning, in this specific context, is neither a clear nor obvious one to me.

ilexgranita · 02/07/2025 12:38

Why the need to tell us he’s a man? It’s not a female only space as you quite rightly point out! Do we all need to declare our sex when offering an opinion or only when you feel your sex gives you special importance? This is my viewpoint - why is it ridiculous?

Tiswa · 02/07/2025 12:40

Dinnerout · 02/07/2025 12:13

I am too and I'm wondering if this is where the disconnect is on this thread. That's a very clear meaning here. Didn't realise it was regional but it surely is as otherwise I don't understand how people are so (aggressively!) not 'getting it'.

And no, not if a tyre is being pumped. But lips? Yes.

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Perhaps I’m London and aware of the meaning just like I know Bap means roll but also has the double entendre meaning breasts.

but also the idea of having lips pumped is a normal meaning of lips filled - I would use it myself without any underlying meaning or sexual undertones

it also made me look at whether I had misunderstood the Black Eyed Peas song pump it but no apparently that is just about turning up the volume. This thread has made me see it in a whole different light

ExercicenformedeZ · 02/07/2025 12:47

Dinnerout · 02/07/2025 12:13

I am too and I'm wondering if this is where the disconnect is on this thread. That's a very clear meaning here. Didn't realise it was regional but it surely is as otherwise I don't understand how people are so (aggressively!) not 'getting it'.

And no, not if a tyre is being pumped. But lips? Yes.

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I'm in Scotland as well and this just isn't true.