To tell the school my child will NOT go to detention..

[Nataliaa]

DD year 7 has been given a 30 minute detention tomorrow afternoon, after school. Since starting secondary, she has received 2 detentions- 1 for forgetting her PE shorts and 1 for not completing homework.
I fully supported the school and the consequences DD had to face on these 2 occasions. She did learn from each time and since then, she has always been organised with PE kit and completing homework.
DD is well behaved, works hard and all school reports have been brilliant so we have no concerns.

Back to today… it is 31 degrees and the school allowed blazers to be left at home, but still expected the children to be in their shirt, ties and trousers (the school recently banned skirts, and does not allow shorts so all children are in trousers. All year round)

During lunch break, DD loosened her tie and untucked her shirt as she was so hot and sweaty… and then forgot to tuck in her shirt and redo tie before going back in.
She walked into English and straight away the teacher told her to tuck the shirt in and do tie, which she did.
Then whilst sat down she untucked the shirt again… she then got up for something and the teacher noticed the shirt untucked and as she had already been told once, she was given the detention.
DD tried to explain she was just so hot and sweaty, she felt she couldn’t concentrate and loosening the shirt helped.. she was then told off for answering back.

I do not agree with this detention at all. Other local schools have let kids go in wearing PE kits in this heat. The teacher was not wearing shirt and tie- she was wearing a floaty and cool summer dress.
I can’t think for the life of me how an untucked shirt would affect DD’s education, and why it’s more important to stick to a strict dress code rather than doing whatever is comfortable in this heat!!

I have never been in the position to disagree with the school, and not sure what would happen if I refuse to let DD go to this detention… also not sure if that’s setting the wrong message to DD, as I always encourage following school rules!!

Any advice? Is this a hill worth dying on? What would you do?

A concerning and sad situation @Forthemarket.

And even when offices did dress like that, girls NEVER wore ties. Its always baffled me why girls have to wear ties at school

You sound fun.

Yes, schools need to control children so they learn (and learn to behave) and people who are shit worker ants have shit lives because they can't get jobs.

There are schools that don't control their kids and turn out kids who aren't suitable for the workplace and parents avoid them if at all possible.

Equality?

I’m not seeing what the “backchat” is, she just explained why she untucked her shirt? And yeah, I’d be snappy too if I was too hot, sweaty and uncomfortable and someone was making me tuck in my shirt, which would make me even more uncomfortable.
Stand up for your daughter and don’t teach her that she has to be obedient to the detriment of herself, that’s the worst thing to teach a girl.

Nah. Scottish education has just fallen to the same standard as English education

Stupidity.

It's really important as parents to teach children to question authority. You don't want kids that blindly obey, that's a terrible parenting outcome...

You'd be teaching her to stand up for her rights which is a good thing - and that you will stand up for her health and safety. The temperatures inside the school right now very likely exceed legal limits for workplaces

This

@mswales

A lot of state secondaries are zoos as it is. It is not uncommon for very little learning to take place due to lessons being situated, DC running around corridors and assaulting staff and students.

The last thing that's needed is more DC "questioning authority".

This is not true, schools in England are out performing Scottish schools.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-67580173

It's really important to learn how to question authority, and, as this girl has learned, that isn't by breaking rules repeatedly and giving lip in lessons.

Thank you all for taking the time to comment.. I must admit I’m now just as conflicted as I was when I posted! Some PP’s have suggested I support my daughter and encourage her to question authority and how she handled the situation today. Others are saying she should do the detention as a consequence for her rude tone and breaking the rules after being told once. I can see from both viewpoints, and the PP’s that agree the uniform rules should be changed or relaxed in this heat. On the other hand I would be setting a bad example to DD and encouraging her to break school rules…. And here I am, still unsure. 🙈

As for DD. She wishes she had spoke to the teacher in a different tone. She acknowledges her tone came across as rude. Mostly the outcome she would like is for the headteacher to let them wear PE kits whilst the temperatures are this high, as so many of hee classmates struggled with the heat today and sweating in their shirts and trousers.

Yep. 100%

Yes! this comment is hitting the nail on the head! It really matters how you communicate when trying to question authority. Rudeness gets you nowhere

Right. So you want kids who don't question authority ever? Even when the rule is INSANE and they're at risk of overheating?
Is that really the best you hope for for your own child? That they learn to grow up and just do whatever they're told, blindly following instructions? Well then I guess they'll make a great soldier or production line worker.
I assume you were wearing a shirt tie and blazer in this heat today

"DD tried to explain she was just so hot and sweaty, she felt she couldn’t concentrate and loosening the shirt helped" but this isn't rude, it's just explaining her actions.
The teacher sounds like an arsehole.

@Seriouslywhatnow

No DC is going to overheat by tucking a shirt in (unless there are special needs, in which case allowances can be be made).

I know a few teachers-and the fact that the powers that be, eg managers who have never taught/Ofsted seem more concerned about uniform than things that matter is one of the reasons they all consider leaving. None of them want to deal with this. Unlike the non-teaching people who decide that uniform matters more than education, the poor teachers and children are stuck in a crowded, hot building with lots of other bodies all day (and most schools have no aircon and are hotter than most workplaces), and then have to deal with complaints from parents, who they'd probably rather have a good relationship with. Obviously I can't say all teachers are like the ones I know, but yours probably doesn't want to do this either-they might be forced to follow policies.

Yeah… the kids don’t learn much though!

I would bet on the fact that “DD tried to explain X Y Z” could also be phrased as “DD was a cheeky little sh1t”

I’’ also a teacher (secondary). There’s no way I’d be giving a detention for the uniform issue but 100% would be giving it for rudeness.

In your position OP I would have gone bat shit crazy about the skirt ban, which smacks of sexual discrimination against girls. I would also have complained loudly about the lack of flexibility regarding uniform when the weather is so hot. Most schools in this area were allowing PE kit today. Your daughter didn't answer back - she merely explained as is her right. This would certainly be my hill to die on and I would be involving the school governors immediately! Good luck!

Which is why I would email/talk to the teacher and hear their version of events. If there was rudeness/attitude then she does the detention. If it’s as you put it in your OP I would advocate for her.