To tell the school my child will NOT go to detention..

[Nataliaa]

DD year 7 has been given a 30 minute detention tomorrow afternoon, after school. Since starting secondary, she has received 2 detentions- 1 for forgetting her PE shorts and 1 for not completing homework.
I fully supported the school and the consequences DD had to face on these 2 occasions. She did learn from each time and since then, she has always been organised with PE kit and completing homework.
DD is well behaved, works hard and all school reports have been brilliant so we have no concerns.

Back to today… it is 31 degrees and the school allowed blazers to be left at home, but still expected the children to be in their shirt, ties and trousers (the school recently banned skirts, and does not allow shorts so all children are in trousers. All year round)

During lunch break, DD loosened her tie and untucked her shirt as she was so hot and sweaty… and then forgot to tuck in her shirt and redo tie before going back in.
She walked into English and straight away the teacher told her to tuck the shirt in and do tie, which she did.
Then whilst sat down she untucked the shirt again… she then got up for something and the teacher noticed the shirt untucked and as she had already been told once, she was given the detention.
DD tried to explain she was just so hot and sweaty, she felt she couldn’t concentrate and loosening the shirt helped.. she was then told off for answering back.

I do not agree with this detention at all. Other local schools have let kids go in wearing PE kits in this heat. The teacher was not wearing shirt and tie- she was wearing a floaty and cool summer dress.
I can’t think for the life of me how an untucked shirt would affect DD’s education, and why it’s more important to stick to a strict dress code rather than doing whatever is comfortable in this heat!!

I have never been in the position to disagree with the school, and not sure what would happen if I refuse to let DD go to this detention… also not sure if that’s setting the wrong message to DD, as I always encourage following school rules!!

Any advice? Is this a hill worth dying on? What would you do?

Schools that insist on shirt, tie and trousers all year round should enforce that among their staff too.

Utter nonsense.

It’s irrelevant what the teacher was wearing - they will have been the hottest person in the room anyhow. You expend more energy than you would imagine when in front of a class. When it’s a grumpy arguing class that energy increases!

Back the school. There is no good from the lesson that if you say it wasn’t fair then you don’t have to do detentions. The message that it’s no big deal but handle it better next time is fine.

I think it’s preposterous - my son got one for just being untucked with no arguing but that is the rule-if I don’t like it I could try and find another school (no chance round here so hey ho). Anyway not attending dt = isolation the next day plus the dt which schools no longer actually need your permission for. Life isn’t fair, school policy can be stupid but save the complaints for things that matter or for the policy in general rather than its application.

OP I would be encouraging your DD to challenge rules that make no sense and rules that risk health. We need to allow our children to challenge respectfully. Don't back down now, show her that we can say when we feel rules are unjust and unfair - I would do the same at work and would be respected for it.

The school has got its knickers in a twist with a ban on skirts and insisting on shirts tucked in, when it is sweltering. I'd go with DD to detention. Then I would complain and suggest they have a summer uniform at once of T-shirts (plain colours) and shorts for duration of heatwave. Oh, and I would object to the discrimination against girls in not allowing skirts (it's doubtless about upskirting and sexual assault but they should be addressing that not discriminating against the girls).

They would get a demerit and wear the school spares - embaressment and a sanction. Detention is headed out for nearly nothing and also for actual bad behaviour, it's not proportionality

Fair enough to challenge rules, but she needs to know there's a time and a place. Arguing/challenging during the lesson is the wrong time. She should have just accepted it at the time, and then challenged it afterwards.

😂😂😂😂

I honestly don't get these dim answers. School gives detention for not having a pen, real life doesn't do that. The working world isn't like that, what are kids learning from over blown extremes like this? Nothing useful

Hence my point that if the school response to a formal complaint is to ignore the valid concern, referring it to the HSE.

I completely agree , even more nuts during the summer !
I question how they expect to be respected by parents and kids when they have such bizarre rules.

I do actually agree with this but she was hot, sweaty and probably miserable - everyone has off days and I do think we should be giving leeway in this weather for kids especially.

I think it should ideally be a behaviour point. But otherwise detention sewms ok as she had already been warned.
Untucking is unlikely to make you that much cooler.

It’s a state school thing. It actually started under Blair on the premise that smarter kids behave better. Gove continued it. It used to be an associated with Academies, but pretty much all schools are academies now, so it’s very widespread. A lot of private schools are much more flexible / humane.

Here we go, OP.

If you don't get your own way, just start lying.

It's the MN way.

I agree with this. Tell its unfair but they're the school rules she was asked to tuck her shirt and the rude when challenged about it. She just needs to suck it up on this occasion and then hopefully it won't happen again.
I don't understand parents who don't back the school just causes more issues down the line and students then think if parents kick off enough they can get out of a detention.
You might disagree with the reason but undermining the school and saying she doesn't need to go is not helpful for her.

As daft as the school rule is. She should do the detention as she was told to tick it in and decided the teacher But still raise this with the head as he/she needs to ensure safety in his school

Ask for a hot weather risk assessment?

I think the school being so picky and inflexible about uniform policy in the heat is ridiculous.

I also think the nature of rules is that they sometimes throw up individual cases that one doesn't agree with, and in something like a school community they've evolved out of a compromise between various parties (headteacher, governors, parents etc.) that isn't going to please everyone all the time.

I also think a 30 minute detention is not a particularly onerous experience. I would say to her that you don't agree with the policy but the situation is what it is and rules have to be applied consistently if they're going to mean anything. Just sit it out and get on with it.

And then maybe write to the board of governors asking for a consultation over the uniform policy.

I’m sure even one bedroom flats can have children as visitors. The housing association has a duty of care and given if a child ever falls out of a window, they are the first in the firing line, I don’t blame them for doing this.

From that report, it looks like the HA are in constant contact with the residents and are offering help and advice. Frankly anyone saying they hare to order food in because it’s too hot to cook is having a laugh. Have a salad, or a sandwich, or heat something in the microwave. Even with restricted windows you can get a breeze going with a small fan next to an open window. There are problems with the building which are being addressed, but too much of this smacks of people sitting waiting for the HA to solve a problem without taking responsibility.

I don’t think your daughter was unreasonable; the rules are unreasonable and enforced too rigidly.

And if what she said in response is as she has said it to be, I don’t think she should be punished for that either. She wasn’t rude or disrespectful; she was explaining her perfectly reasonable actions.

I dunno. My supervisor is 65 and he showed up in a suit and tie to work and he commutes quite a long way.

I'm sure an eleven to twelve year old can cope.

I’m an employer. I emailed all my English staff this morning telling them to prioritise their health and wellbeing during the heatwave - to adapt their clothing, be flexible with their hours, stay hydrated etc

that children are being detained for not tucking their shirts in is appalling

This. It is ridiculous how parents seek to undermine teachers authority these days. No wonder the job is such a nightmare for them.

I also don’t like the sound of that uniform policy in this hot weather OP. in your shoes, I’d be emailing the form tutor or head of year asking what they are doing to protect the children’s health in this hot weather and asking if pe kit or shorts can be worn instead.
However, I wouldn’t disagree with the detention, as it mostly sounds like it was for talking back/ rude tone. We all have to deal with stupid systems from time to time in work or general life and often just have to put up with them, so your daughter does need to learn that sometimes, even when a rule is really stupid, she had to abide by it.

I would be telling them she absolutely is not doing an after school detention. I have in the past! Think ours was over my DD wearing crocs - she had second degree burns on her feet and couldn’t possibly get any other shoes on. Then because I refused to let her do it and they couldn’t really argue about it they went in on something else - I think tracking her down to check she had studs in her ears and nothing else. It’s an absolute joke especially when you see how some of the teachers are dressed. I don’t blame her for trying to explain either - aren’t we all a bit snappy and bothered in this weather!