No family support, anyone else? Help me find solutions.

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Feeling alone and exhausted. We have 2 kids, 2 years apart: youngest is 9 months (crawling, fussy), eldest nearly 3 (terrible twos).

Both parents useless, dead or alive. One has passed, but wasn’t any help when alive. My mum is alive but may as well not be, only met my eldest once 2 years ago, has never met youngest, won’t visit, and her house isn’t safe for kids. She’s an alcohol and mental health problems, possibly the most draining self centred person you could imagine and all caused by my late father who abused her emotionally and rumoured, physically but no idea if that’s her wild imagination or the truth. Don’t care at this point, she has failed me as a mother since the day I was born and I’ve been left with troubled siblings which only adds to my stress. Yes I have by now distanced myself/cut them off for my own sanity…

In-laws (mid-70s) are helpful with other grandkids (now 6+ and up to uni age) but say how much harder it is now at their age and find it hard to help as much as they did with the other grandkids (19, 16, 8, 6). They live 2 hours away but will happily drive 2 hours to BIL’s to do school pick-ups, give dinner, and drive home just because BIL/SIL are working late and “don’t trust anyone else.” But visiting us in London? “Too much traffic.” It is straight motorways to BIL but their only solution when we say we’re struggling is “come to us.”

When we do, we get fed and it’s nice to have a change of scenery, kids like the big garden and not worrying about food is nice, but help is minimal: no mornings, no overnights, no weekends without us. We’re still hands-on, plus have to pack for 5 (including the dog), deal with travel car sickness, overtired kids, and disrupted routines. Yesterday we left at 6.30pm, home by 8.30pm, no one slept in the car, toddler vomited, everyone overtired. We walked back into a messy house because we’d been too busy packing to tidy before we left. Honestly, not worth it.

We get more help seeing local friends with kids, where toddlers play and people happily hold the baby. DH agrees but won’t push back when PIL suggest visiting them. Just says we only do it every couple of months, it’s manageable, the drive here is horrid hence why we don’t enjoy it and they’re old. We’ve discussed moving out of london and we will but in a few years time. What if we moved closer for the help and their age doesn’t stop being a factor?

Meanwhile, others I know have grandparents flying in from abroad to take grandkids at 6am so parents can lay in, having them for the weekend while grandparents go to weddings, 5 days at Glastonbury, and holidays of their own. Dream scenario. We have to pay for every minute of help to have any kind of life….. I’ve not found anyone who can do double bedtime successfully yet. Given the age of the DCs they just want mum and dad or grandparents would be ideal but here we are.

DH turns 40 later this year. PIL say they won’t have both DCs as a full weekend including bedtime and mornings is ‘too much’ in case they might be unwell or not sleeping for example and even still would only help if we drive up rather come here.

For context, 2 years ago for a child-free wedding we rebooked flights to leave from near PIL, dropped off DC1, (2+ hours), packed for him and Us, their nearest airport we could leave from was 90 min away and all in return for 2 night stay. They ignored our messages when it was going badly sleep-wise. Non stop worry. We’d have been better off paying a professional to stay at ours.

I’d love to ring “mum” for help but don’t have one, never have done. I made my peace but this weekend everyone seems to be off without DCs and we feel exhausted from visiting PIL.

Any advice? We don’t want an au pair as the house isn’t enourmous being in London and someone would drive me mad living here, but I’m starting to think we need to hire someone so we can stop begging family for scraps of help and finally get a break.

what have others done in this scenario? No siblings my side as I established but DH has an older sister who is almost an empty nested, eldest off to uni in September. So left with her 16 year old. Could be an option but we’ve never asked.

We didn't have any help either. I was concerned that they wouldn't be confident to be left with anyone as they got older. So enrolled them in scouts (your oldest can join squirals in a year at 4). This has been fantastic, for us getting the odd break and for the kids confidence. Neither of my kids where phase at going on school residential in primary as they had already done camping away from home. And as your two are closer in age you will get some camps where they are away together. Even my two who are 4 years apart have done this as they will do mixed section camps. For example cubs and scouts together.

When the kids where little we either had to pay babysitters or swap favours with friends, so we didn't go out often. I can also understand how hard it is with the travelling to relatives DH family are only an hour away but DD would get bad car sickness and it was never easy and despite them being young grandparents (in their early 50's when DD was born) they wouldn't come to us for some reason. My dad is 4 hours away so we have never seen them often.

Due to several factors we never had family help with our kids. Any help we had, we paid for it. Babysitters for going out in the evening, the odd few hours during daytime every so often and so on. We just got on with it and brought our children to loads of places and weekends away where it would have been nice to leave them home with someone but as there wasn’t a someone, they came too.

Brilliant, thanks for the suggestions these are great. At what age were you able to manage the tag team parenting? Makes me think living in london is the way forward as it’s so much easier to create a network here of other parents and the paid for help. We have good jobs so we can afford it once I’m back at work, and people want to ‘live in’ in london if it comes to it.

made me question whether the support we do get is worth the hassle.

That makes it seem very transactional! See them because you want to, not because of what you can get out of them,

The reason your in-laws don’t come and see you is because they don’t want tolook after a baby and a toddler at their age, and I don’t blame them.

Im 61 and in the last 12 months both of my girls have had a baby, I’m planning on offering regular childcare because I can and I want to. However, if they decide to have more babies in the future that may change as I get older and potentially won’t have the energy, I hope they wouldnt resent that.

Your BIL has older children, your in-laws felt capable of having them at that time. Instead of being so resentful why not speak to your in-laws and ask what they can do. Although if your attitude comes across in real life as it does on this forum I can understand why they don’t help.

You just have to suck it up and crack on. I'm a lone parent with twins, both of whom have additional needs. Absolutely fuck all help; nada.
You just get used to it when it's all you know.

What did you childcare wise do for the remote wedding?

I think in this day and age where people tend to move away to set up a life, it's more common to have no local support than to have it. Best thing to do is to accept it and take pride in it. You chose to have these kids, so it's your responsibility to care for and provide for them.

We live 1-2hr away from all family and have never had or expected any help from anybody, it's tough at times (mostly when everyone is really unwell) but in general I do feel a sense of pride knowing that we're doing it ourselves. I have seen the odd friend with super involved family and it can be helpful in some ways but awful in others. When people pitch in they often expect an equal say or there are strings attached, seen lots of conflict when people are offering childcare and then their expectations in return aren't met. It feels more peaceful and more simple in some ways knowing that it's on us, no unmet expectations or resentment.

We haven't had a night together alone since I gave birth lol. And it's fine. We chose to stop at one because two would have sent us under I think without any support. Did you get a lot of support with the first and then choose to add a second and it disappeared? Or was there a reason you went for two without support?

yes well said and agree, I have definitely accepted it and made my peace because we are lucky in other ways, we live in a desirable location, nice house and good jobs. We can afford the help which is why I’m keen to understand solutions. We do have Nursey for DC1 four days a week, not eligible for free hours just yet. DC2 will be joining from later this year. Honestly the nursery bill will be £4k+ per month so knowing where to spend the extra childcare help is a valid question.

I had no help from family when my children were small, a lot of people don't. My family and my in laws didn't live nearby and it never occurred to me to ask for any help. I loved them but they had very different views about child rearing so I didn't want any help from them anyway.
My support network was my friends, we helped each other when we could and when we couldn't we just got on with it.

We don't have practical help from grandparents either (sick/ old/ dead). When the kids were small we took days off together sometimes while they were in nursery, or worked from home and had lunch together/ speedy shag on our lunch breaks. We spent a lot of leisure time with friends with similar aged children, as it's just so much easier- outdoors ideally.

Ours are in primary school now and I no longer feel such an urge for a break- it's all so, so much easier. I occasionally think it would be nice to have a weekend away with my husband, but the logistics would be hard and we're ok really. I used to feel like I'd happily stay in a motorway Travelodge on my own for a fortnight. You will be ok too, honestly.

My situation is different as my mum is generally lovely, she just works too many hours to be much practical help and refuses overnights (she will babysit for a few hours now and then though).

Honestly, in terms of weekends away or anything overnight, we've just accepted it. Occasionally one of us will do something with friends and we get breaks that way. Occasionally we book annual leave when they are at nursery and have a date day.

Sometimes I look at friends with more help and feel jealous, but comparison is the thief of joy. Moaning about it won't magically make childcare appear and I'm not willing to leave them with an unknown babysitter so 🤷‍♀️

My husband and I are immigrants so have never had anyone else. He travelled a lot for work when the kids were younger so it was often just me. Our daughter is 12 and we have had 2 overnights without them since they were born and have no intention of any more for the next several years.

What helped? Finding a tiny village and sharing lifts a lot. It honestly wasn’t super practical until everyone was in primary school just with car seats and such but it’s much easier now my children are 12/9. So my son goes with a friend to football and we take them another time etc.

Ummm… honestly not sure what else was helpful. Letting go of things that weren’t necessary? We both work full time so sometimes dinners are… creative. And we watch telly a bit too much some nights. And I get a takeaway now and again when I’m just too tired.

If you have the money to outsource things do it! We never had that kind of money but if you can get a regular babysitter or cleaner or meal delivery it might help a lot.

We are expecting our first and also have no support, with some family passed away, not being close with some family and others living overseas. We don’t think we would put such expectations on the friends we have to assist with childcare. We are expecting we will have our little plus one with us for future times away and date nights and we are ok with that - we will just make it work. We did have a serious discussion about the lack of support before we decided to try for a baby.

I'd say it's quite rare to have family who'll have the kids as often as you say you'd like. It's lovely, but not overly common. When my family couldn't help we used babysitters (friends, nursery workers, anyone recommended really). We had a few we trusted enough to leave our kids with overnight. It's easily done if you reach out but obviously overnight sitters are expensive

I went on my own and DH had the kids.

It was still nice to go to the wedding but it was a bit sad being in a lovely romantic location with a load of other couples alone.

These threads about having no family support really bemuse me.
Do people have children expecting outside support as a given ?
I had my son 30 years ago .It wasn't a common expectation that other people would help, baby sit , take children overnight.
I stopped at one because I knew I couldn't cope with two.
No outside support.
I'm sure having support is more of a rarity and that the majority manage on their own.

But op has small children that do need to stick to some sort of routine, it's not acceptable for the inlaws to ignore that and still insist that dinner is at 6pm meaning op gets home late.

Op only go when it's suitable for you and your children, a visit is presented as help so only agree or stick to the helpful parts and decide to leave at an appropriate time if they aren't willing to adapt a bit for young children.

You have to adjust your mindset and expectations I think. I’m a single parent. I mean this is the nicest possible way but coming home to a messy house after a busy weekend and giving my kids something speedy for dinner is a regular occurrence for me. My house is messy most of the time. My kids eat quick meals all of the time. I used to feel guilty about these things, like I should be modelling home cooked meals and an immaculate house all of the time, but I no longer dwell on them, because that way leads disaster and feeling shit which is worse for my children than having toast for dinner. It’s taken me 2 months to decorate the smallest room in my house, it would probably take 2 people with no kids 2/3 days.

My mum helps me with 2 school pick ups a week, I’m very lucky, but I wouldn’t ask her to have them overnight now, it would be too much for her. My ex in laws aren’t in good enough health to help. I get time to myself when my ex has the kids, sure, but I don’t get any “couple” time, because if it’s taken me 2 months to decorate a bedroom I can’t see how I can justify carving out time to date or have a relationship.

You’re clearly exhausted, so here are some suggestions and tips:

• carve out time to do something for you, hobby, meeting friends, don’t be ruled by the fact you’re a parent, have your own life too even if it’s away from your husband
• Tag team on weekends, so if the toddler is being a nightmare then one of you takes them to the park or somewhere. If the baby is teething and being tricky then one of you takes baby for a walk. You can adapt all this as kids get older. 1:1 time with kids is SO good for them. It’s one thing I wish I could do more of and it’s something you can do, don’t feel like you have to spend all your time together as a family of 4.
• pay a babysitter for date nights, this time of year is good to find a trusted one because uni students are coming home from the summer and want income. Try friends, Facebook groups, other parents for recommendations. My parents never had family support locally so I had a babysitter one night a week so they could go do their hobby together. It never did me any harm, and now I’m older I think, good for them.
• Just seen you use nurseries, ask them if any of their staff are allowed to babysit (some don’t allow it), my ds1’s key worker used to babysit a lot including overnights, it was a great side hustle for her. When both kids are in nursery book the odd day off together and you can have a date day or even just lunch out somewhere. This kind of thing is much easier to do before they start school and you’re juggling school holidays
• Tag team for lie ins on your non working days, so for example on Saturdays you get a lie in and then on Sunday your husband does.
• Accept you are in the trenches, it’s very hard at those ages, a 2 year gap sounds very hard work to me but people I know who have that gap says it’s much easier as they get older. Things like overnight wakings and early mornings usually improve as children get older then you won’t crave the lie ins and help so much because you’ll be getting the sleep you need.
• If you’ve had a really shit night and you’re exhausted you have to accept it. This sounds stupid but it’s something I had to learn, rather than fight it. You have to accept that won’t be firing on all cylinders every single day.
• Accept that you can’t do certain things, I have to accept that I can’t date, go on weekends away, or commit to certain hobbies and social gatherings. I’ve lost friends and I’ve had to accept that too because I haven’t got the time to maintain loads of friendships. Even work things, there was an important work all day meeting (sounds worse than it actually is 🤣) a few weeks ago but I’d already booked the day off as it was a school inset day. I don’t think my boss was very happy but I obviously can’t reschedule it so they just had to accept it. Years ago I would have tied myself in knots and got myself stressed out trying to work out how I could go.

I hope you get some sleep soon!!

I can understand your frustration, but ithe oldest grandchild is 19, so PILs have been helping out with grandkids for almost 20 years, and are now mid 70s.
It's hard work looking after a 3 year old and 9 month old even at your age, never mind mid 70s.

Loads of people don't have outside support. You decide to have kids and then you raise them. Any help you get is a bonus.

My mum had a stroke and then broke her hip and had balance issues before DS was born. She came to live with us when he was 3 and then developed severe vascular dementia and immobility and ended up in care when he was 5. She died when he was 7. I never left DS with her for even 5 minutes while I popped to the shop. She was able to read with him and do a jigsaw with him while I did chores but I always had to be within shouting distance and I was looking after her at this point (and working). It did mean that for a few years my son and his grandma had a lovely relationship though and I am grateful for that. My mum in law had cancer and died when DS was 2. Neither of them were ever well enough to offer child care or any more support than a cuppa and a chat. What I wouldn't give now to be able to drive 2 hours to visit either of them just to do that.

My now ExH had a brother who babysat a couple of times but it wasn't overly successful. We didn't see him often and DS wasn't keen on being left so we stopped it. I remember having a couple of nights out when he was school age and went on sleepovers at friends or was on a residential trip. We never went out/away without him other than that. If we wanted to have a meal out together we went earlier and he came with us. We had a drink at home when he was in bed.

ExH and I separated when DS was 11 and I can count on my fingers how many nights DS has slept away from home at his dads (he used to have him for a few hours during the day). I think he has taken him on 2 holidays. DS is now 18. Saying you don't see why you should put yourselves out to visit your husband's family (who he clearly wants to see) when they don't provide help seems very transactional and it doesn't sound like your husband agrees (visiting every couple of months is not excessive). It doesn't sound at all like you have made the peace with your situation that you say you have.

We were the same, you can’t dwell on it or it will drag you down. You’re at a tough stage and it will get easier. Just focus on what you do have rather than what others have.

Don't you have friends, OP? Much better idea than relying on people in their 70s!

Non of our parents bothered which was hard and hurtful with small children. They favoured my sisters kids and rarely made an effort with mine
Now they’re older and need help, I leave it up to DSis. My kids are grown and I did it without any support and I’m not beholden to elderly parents either. You reap what you sow.
OP I’d just get on with your life and lower your expectations- don’t make your life difficult by visiting these people

Oh for goodness sake. You've got a partner, 2 young children . You are a family of 4 and you took on a dog. Yep OK, you look at other people..they've got parents who drop everything to be with their kids and Grandkids at a moments notice, they've maybe got more money, they have lush holidays, they've got a big house..You've got a dysfunctional family on your side and older in laws who feel they've done their bit. They're in their mid seventies, they were much younger when your older nieces and nephews were small. They are now older, tired, maybe with some health niggles, not so agile and no they don't want to drive into London for you to gallivant and have lost the confidence to do so. You shouldn't expect it. Your children are perfectly normal, celebrate them, be good parents, interact with them and put their needs first instead of worrying about all the other things you could do. You chose to have children! You could be on your own with a severely disabled child, no job no money no respite. You need to fez up! Leaving your 2 children for anything but a couple of hours with an inexperienced 16yr old is not an option. You talk of getting an au pair, do you follow the news? These youngsters from oversees cannot get visas to work here. Maybe you have to look at your mental health, things you can do when the children are in bed, interactions with other mums while your older child is in nursery school. Things you can do as a family rather than dumping your kids to do adult things. Im sorry, weve all been in your position. . .you could be storing up trouble if you don't change and be more proactive with your children. I've got Grandchildren, the ages of yours and I have to say their company is wonderful and we don't have issues . The elder boy has excellent behaviour and social skills because that's how they are raised, their parents are never looking for others to care for them because they are the centre of their universe, they take them everywhere but when we've looked after them at our home ..by our choice because we're getting on it's been easy.