I’m probably being a prude but…

[Username73638]

…what is the deal with teenage girls running around basically naked these days?

Last week, I was driving down the road near a secondary school at letting out time and I must have seen about 5 girls’ actual bum cheeks as they were leaving school. Like, we all rolled our skirts up fairly short at school, but this was actually full knickers and bums on display… one girl was wearing a thong so it was just her whole bum on show.

Then, I was on the beach today (we live near the sea) with my two primary school aged sons and there were a group of maybe 13-14 year old girls, they were very young, more than half of whom were in thong bikinis. They spent most of the time on the beach doing a photoshoot, predominantly photos of them from behind looking out to sea, presumably for social media?!

I know teenagers have always been teenagers, but I’m pretty sure underage girls weren’t wearing thong bikinis on the beach when I was that age 😳

I could see other families on the beach felt uncomfortable with it too.

Do their parents know? Is this just how teenagers dress these days?

Yes, I've learnt there's no point engaging with that poster.

I wonder if there will be a backlash in fashion in the next decades? We've got to the point where it's very common to see celebrities wearing very little and schoolchildren following their example.

Each generation likes to reinvent what's cool. Maybe soon skimpy clothing will be seen as old-fashioned and cringe and the new, modern way of dressing will be more covered. Everyone will start covering up.

Then a generation or two at that we'll be back to wearing short skirts again. A never-ending cycle!

That is what you said. You certainly have turned it into something unrelated so maybe focus on the debate and stop deflecting.

I tell children that adults can and sometimes do things wrong from time to time. That they might try and touch or look but that it is never their fault if an adult does that and nothing they have done has caused it.

That is why people do not disclose because they were alone at night or in a dark side of town and blame themselves as they are told not to do it. Nope I do not say do not walk alone or don't take sweets from strangers. I tell them adults will sometimes try and bribe the and trick them into doing things and the adult is to blame the whole time. Even if they manage that is the adults fault the whole time.

So no I do not tell them that they are more at risk walking home alone than being at home with family as that is not true.

Do you tell female kids never date as it is the most likely cause of abuse? I doubt it. Do you say do not stay with family and friends as that puts them at risk? The reality is that the danger is in the home significantly more so than in the streets yet I guarantee no one on here will tell them not to date or marry because of the risk it brings. It is often encouraged that they meet dangerous men!

I think you're right about the never-ending cycle.
I'm getting on a bit now and I can remember in the seventies, teenage girls wearing very very short skirts with matching knickers!

I think you're in danger of being ruled by statistics rather than your own common sense if you would genuinely tell your own daughter she was more at risk in her family home than on secluded streets after dark. This would only be true if her household contained an abuser. And surely if you had the slightest fear of that you'd remove him, or not allow a man in the home at all if you believe no man is safe, rather than tell your daughter she is safer walking the streets alone?

The reality is that the danger is in the home significantly more so than in the streets yet I guarantee no one on here will tell them not to date or marry because of the risk it brings. It is often encouraged that they meet dangerous men!

No, I teach my daughter to know her own worth, to listen to her gut instinct, that if something feels out of sorts she has the right to say no and to leave situations that feel uncomfortable. I teach her that her views are important and what it means to be heard and respected. I teach her that boundaries matter - hers and other people’s.

I also teach her that she has choices in life for better and worse, that people - men and women - aren’t always kind and don’t always have her best interests at heart. That it’s ok to walk away from anyone that doesn’t respect your boundaries.

I also teach her that at 14 no one needs to see your arse cheeks and liberation doesn’t mean showing as much skin as is humanly possible.

Common sense tells you that warning kids of the danger of being in a relationship and not to do it but warn them that they are likely to get attacked in the street which is not common and also builds myths of 'textbook' attacks and rapes.

Her house could contain an abusers as she is older that is more than likely. Abusers do not announce they are abusers so why would you have a fear unless they have shown it?

I didn't say no man is safe, those are your words. She is safer walking the streets alone than being in bed with her partner. So why would you not warn her, because that will prevent her ever being attacked at home, right? Or was it not about safety in the first place if we do not warn of the biggest risk?

Odd that the main risk of abuse is excluded - suggesting the aim isn't to keep her safe or else that would be the primary focus.

And when it feels right until he hits her then it was her fault for not noticing because she should've right?

It makes me laugh all this talk of teens walking around with naked arses out which is laughable as they really aren't. The exaggeration is quite something. Short skirt = naked arse on show isn't really the case.

She is safer walking the streets alone than being in bed with her partner. So why would you not warn her, because that will prevent her ever being attacked at home, right?

Surely you do both. Because stranger rape is a thing, someone following her from a night out is a possibility, someone she invites into her life might present a risk to her. So safety out and about, and high standards in what she’ll accept in a relationship - it’s not either/or.

What on earth. You clearly have your own stuff going on here. Teaching girls about standards in relationships does not equal blaming her if something happens. It supports her to recognise warning signs, to listen to herself and to be clear where someone oversteps her boundaries.

To do otherwise either communicates that she literally has no agency or way to identify and deal with risk, or that she is victim to the whims of any man who would do her harm. Neither are great messages for our daughters.

Why would she need to think about safety in a relationship if you have warned her not to do that for her own safety?

I mean you tell her never to walk alone in the dark so surely you tell her never for dating too?

I didn't say not teaching her about standards in relationships. You've misunderstood.

Recognising warning signs is difficult for even experts so when she doesn't notice them, then what? How does it happen if you taught her to look for signs and act on it?

My point is if you tell her never do X or Y then surely you are saying never to dating - why is it never for certain things only?

I don’t know what you mean. It’s not realistic to say never walk alone in the dark, it is reasonable for her to think about places she feels uncomfortable, to always have another way to get home, to contact her parents for a lift etc.

She needs to know what a “safe” relationship looks and feels like, to have that modelled to her, to know it’s ok to not be in situations that don’t feel safe for her. Sadly she already knows very well that even relationships that should be safe often aren’t, so she needs to know how to differentiate between people that tell her she’s safe and what being safe feels like to her.

Every experience of rape or abuse doesn’t mirror yours, and women and girls need different things at different points in their development. You projecting your shit over people and situations you know nothing about doesn’t strengthen anyone.

I am not relating any of this to me or projecting at all but weird you are thinking about me in that way. I never mentioned my abuse or rape when discussing telling females not to date. However, my situation is great thank you.

Your daughter will think she is safe and think she feels safe.

We surely can't say:
Don't wear short skirts it is dangerous.
Don't walk home alone it is dangerous.
Don't get in a taxi alone it is dangerous.
Don't get your purse out in public it is dangerous.

Date away but spot the danger that is covered up and so difficult to spot that most cannot until it is too late. Why not say - do not date it is dangerous?

My point is, if this is purely about keeping girls safe by telling them not to do things that are dangerous then why do we not say the same and say do not date as it is dangerous?

Also I date, why would I not date? How is that different to your child dating? It really isn't is it? So how is my situation different when I am saying I enjoy dating?

I don’t say don’t do X because it’s dangerous. I do say take precautions, think about your safety, and choose safer options, and yes I do tell my 14 year old to go and change her skirt because no one needs to see her knickers.

I’m not going to tell her not to date, she has the right to intimate relationships in her life as she gets older. Things will change as she grows and matures, she’s already setting her own standards in relationships. As she matures her sense of what is an isn’t ok will crystallise, and she’ll learn to listen to herself.

I’ve worked in the VAWG space for over 30 years and every single woman I’ve worked with can tell of a time when they had a sense he wasn’t safe, or an incident where they ignored their own sense of danger, or set aside their needs to be nice, to not cause hassle or because they thought he couldn’t possibly be “like that.

They aren’t remotely to blame for what then happened to them, that’s all on the men who abused them. They were however taught from an early age to over ride their own instincts, to be nice, please others and put their own needs last. That men could make demands on them, push their boundaries and that was ok.

My DD is 14, there’s a world of a difference in her dating as a young teenager and me, as a 50 odd year old woman dating. What an odd thing to say.

I've found the opposite that none of them knew or noticed until something happened. So in those situations what could be done if all was rosey and light until it wasn't? Can't keep yourself safe from someone you do not know is a danger? Also when something did happen they knew that leaving meant a greater danger.

They were however taught from an early age to over ride their own instincts, to be nice, please others and put their own needs last. That men could make demands on them, push their boundaries and that was ok. Absolutely many are taught that by being told from a young age that they are responsible for men's behaviour which is exactly the point I am making in telling them that when someone pushes your boundaries at 3 you shouldn't people please and change who you are to over ride your instincts at 3 years old that this person is unsafe! That unsafe person should be held to account.

I assumed she was an adult in how you were talking about her dating.

What an odd thing to assume I knew her DOB? and criticise me when I do not. I also never mentioned you dating either? Not sure where that has come from.

I’ve mentioned her age regularly throughout this thread and have not mentioned her dating. Given you’ve replied to many of those posts, and I’ve never implied I was talking about an adult - in fact quite the opposite, and the thread is clearly about younger teenagers, I’ve no idea why you’d think she was an adult or why I’d be talking about setting boundaries around her behaviour or wardrobe if indeed she was an adult.

I do not track your posts - should I be expected to?

You mentioned in your post about dating that she has already found out about relationships not being safe etc. Implying she has dated lots and has been hurt.

You've no idea why someone would think that people have children of all different ages and when talking about dating as an adult as you specifically brought up me as an adult and my situation for no reason and then go on about adults dating and you say your child has found out that there are some relationships can be unsafe and I would assume you were on about a child is dating lots of boys without you being specific?

When talking about adult dating I would assume you are on about adult children. You never said her age but then expected me to be tracking all your posts and know your daughters date of birth and because I didn't you imply something about me.

People on here have mentioned their 30 year old daughter and what they told them as they were growing up etc so why wouldn't people share about their then teenage kids who are now adults?

*You mentioned in your post about dating that she has already found out about relationships not being safe etc. Implying she has dated lots and has been hurt.

I didn’t mention dating, I spoke about her knowing that apparently safe relationships weren’t always safe. Nowhere did I imply I was talking about partner relationships and yes, she has been very hurt in relationships that should have been safe for her.

Learning about boundaries and safety starts at home, starts with family relationships and extends into friendships, relationships with known adults and peer relationships. That’s where starting with setting and maintaining boundaries provides a model of what safe relationships look like, and how to listen to that part of you that doesn’t feel safe. If we don’t do that at home, children learn to disregard their own instincts and don’t learn when someone is pushing their boundaries or how to respond when that happens. And that tracks into their relationships as adults and leaves them vulnerable.

I do not track your posts - should I be expected to?

You literally quoted two of my posts, in this recent exchange, where I clearly mentioned my daughter’s age. The context of my comments clearly indicate I’m talking about a child.

The post was about dating. If you switched subjects and that line wasn't about her dating then why put it inside a paragraph about dating and then complain when I assume it is?

If you changed topics to family dynamics then I would recommend that you mention this or else people will assume you were still on the same topic.

Adults learn from a whole range. Seeing poor relationships in childhood doesn't mean they are destined for shite as an adult.

Nope it didn't at all.

As I said, I do not track your posts. I reply to comments. I do not recognise who I reply to just reply so when I said I do not track your posts that means I do not write a list of who I replied to and note their family make up. I don't even look at the names. So your name isn't even read when I reply I read the post so how can I relate that post to your daughter when I do not read who it is or read anything about their ages.

Should I start with your family and who is in it and ages, please share and I will keep a list.

You might want to tell those with adult daughters they shouldn't be commenting on here. Teens only.