To ask if you refused to help with older relatives and how that went down?

[Fragmentedbrain]

I have 2 parents and 2 parents in law closing in on needing care. Reading other threads here it sounds as though this has a high chance of ruining my life over the next decade or so.

My husband and I work full time, love our jobs and don't have any caring responsibilities or instincts, not even a cat. I don't want to give up work or holidays or enjoying this bit of my life before I in turn am too old.

If we refuse to get involved beyond visits to say hello, how screwed are our parents?

(As we are child free I am not worried about any example setting although appreciate the relationship with siblings could get tricky)

I missed the link! It's called Inchmarlo - I previously got the name wrong.

https://inchmarlo-retirement.co.uk/

If they were good parents then it is your duty to do your best. If they were rubbish then ignore them with a clear conscience. Some people can do it and others just aren't cut out for it. You will have to live with your decisions. I couldn't look after my Mum as she had medical needs which I was not qualified to handle, but I looked after my partner as that was 'just' basic care. It's not easy even then.

@WearyAuldWumman that look nice 😊

Since the folks I know who moved to something similar, I kind of giggle to myself as they talk about it. It’s like university accommodations (but nicer!) for older people.

They make new friends, complain about the food, drink together, go out together. (There’s even a significant rate of stds amongst those over 60 🫢😁)

Neither of them lived in student accommodation so they have to take my word for it. But not going to lie…it reminds me of a much better version of my university dorms!

OP, I can see that you do have a particular mindset but ... can you maybe accept that it's not typical, and is quite worrying? Nihilistic? Anti-humane? I'm sorry you feel this way about your life, it seems a miserable way to be.

Frankly, I find this entire thread terrifying. Feels like we're sitting in the crumbled ruins of what used to be termed 'community'. Everyone for themselves is a desperate and dead-ended way to think and live. If everyone were like this, we would all be utterly fucked.

My godmother has got herself well sorted. Womens collective in Hampstead. It is very her and sounds quite lovely. She did sell a massive house in Muswell Hill though, so maybe not achieveable for most.

This is similar to the place I am hoping to move to. It does look nice, and like good levels of support would be offered.

People are needing far more extensive care these days which is most of the problem. You literally could put your life on hold for a decade to look after a parent. That was rarely the case in the past.

People just don't like to confront uncomfortable feelings that's why everyone's rushing to condemn the OP for being selfish and nihilistic. At least she's saving her kids from the horror of old age-pretty selfless really.

She hasn’t got any kids.

Yeah that was the point.

Then how can she save non existent children from anything?

People who have never cared for elderly parents will remind you of your duty and tell you that you’re an awful person for not wanting to do it. My experience of caring for my elderly mum who had Alzheimer’s was hell on earth. I honestly wanted to drive off a cliff. She didn’t want to go into a care home and social services decided she had capacity to make that decision, despite the fact she didn’t know what day of the week it was. She eventually had carers in 3 times a day to do her personal care and make meals for her. But honestly I am still traumatised by the whole experience. Being wakened multiple times in the middle of the night, emergency trips to the hospital, wading through excrement to unblock the toilet because she had tried to flush a massive incontinence pad (several times), rushing to her house in a blind panic because she wasn’t answering the phone. And that’s just the urgent stuff. There was the endless grind of cleaning and laundry and shopping and admin and hundreds of hospital and clinic visits. Anyone who thinks it’s all cups of tea and mopping furrowed brows is sadly mistaken. You can put help in place, but it’s just the tip of the iceberg because most sick elderly people’s needs are quite complex and someone has to be the coordinator. And that person is usually you. If DP’s parents get dementia, I will be keeping well out of it. Luckily three of his siblings are close enough to pitch in. I had nobody, as my brother lives elsewhere and didn’t even do the bare minimum he could have done from a distance. She died a couple of years ago. She was a lovely person and a good mum and I miss her so so much but I don’t miss being her carer.

Life always involves some degree of suffering (pain, loss, hardship etc). Nobody escapes illness and death, so the argument is that by not creating a life, you are sparing someone from that suffering. Of course you can argue that you are denying them pleasure and happiness too, but it's down to personal belief as to whether you believe that happiness is greater than the suffering. Some people feel that the state of none existence is better, because you don't suffer, and you don't experience something you never had in the first place (happiness and pleasure) therefore you aren't missing out on anything.

I don't mind being alive, but given the choice, I would have stayed as not existing, because it's the easiest and more peaceful option.

Because if she HAD decided to have kids they'd have to go through old age. The fact she didn't means they don't. Given how horrendous old age can be I'd say she's saved potential or hypothetical kids from it.

I really respect your post and can hear exactly what you are saying. A lot depends on what your 'elderly' person is like. In your case you are wise to do as you are doing.

Your bottom paragraph is really unfair! It's seems like a real dig at those that work full time and have built a life that they pay for all by themselves without ever recieving any benefits! You seen against people who in many cases are working to make sure their kids have a quality of life!
It's not about inclination! We work because that's what people should do so you don't easily have opportunities to make new friends as a working person! Do you know what else takes friendships away? The parents you think we should devote ourselves too! When I was growing up, my parents insisted on moving house to a different town every 4 or 5 years! They did it again when I left school at 15 so they pulled me away from all the friendships I'd built in childhood! They made me move to a different county and to a village which was crap at 15 and then mum made me move out at 18! Don't ever criticise people that work rather than sit on benefits.

OP has said that she didn't have children because she doesn't want to provide care to anyone. She is obviously aware that she isn't the sort of person that would enjoy being a mother so thankfully hasn't had kids. So she isn't being hypocritical.

A lot of posts on the Elderly Parents board are from women whose parents, who haven't been great parents themselves and who also refused to look after their own parents when they needed care but still expected their daughter to provide hands-on care for them.

Times have changed, women aren't all unemployed and available, I'm 45 and will be in full time working until my 60's, my mum is 74 at present and completely fine but if things change I can't be there for her when she's 35 miles away and I work. People are living longer so somebody of 74 could have a 95yr old parent. Can you see why it's getting ever more necessary to utilise any care assistance available! This is why the government are trying to get the economically inactive into the care profession.

I was living 3 hours away in my 60s when my mum was in her 90s then most “kids “ were my age or in 70s making time for their parents who had loved them and couldn’t bear not to help wherever possible
if parents were abusive clearly different story but otherwise wake up and see that ur behaviour is cruel and hopefully society will not take you as a template for love

Women were never mostly unemployed and available. WC women have always worked, being a long term SAHM was a luxury few men could afford. My DM was working when caring for her DM (who lived with us), I was working full time in a senior role when supporting my parents. The same was true for all my peers and the vast majority of my parents’ friends when they hit this stage of life. What my DM never had was access to was teams of visiting carers (as a profession) and had to rely on informal and ad hoc arrangements for small amounts of extra care whist she was at paid work.

Its not all or nothing - as I said upthread. You do what you can, a lot of the help elders need IME is communication and help with navigating systems. You don’t need to be local or out of work to provide that.

Posters often seem to talk about elder care as if its either fully independent or fully dependent - its rarely that extreme. At the point of needing full time medical and personal or dementia care residential is still likely to be the logical answer (unless the elder in question has no assets in which case social services will do their damnedest to force families to care, NHS will also try to force families to provide free rehab care IME).

However most of the help needed day to day is support and advocacy not bathing and feeding and that is perfectly doable even with a demanding full time job.

The last line of this post struck a chord.

For various reasons and to various degrees, my whole life has basically been moving from one set of caring responsibilities to another - children first m, which one could argue is my own choice, so fair enough, and in the last ten years, I've cycled through my MIL (Alzheimers, lived with us for 18 months before residential care became the only safe option). Two weeks after she was installed there, my Mum revealed her diagnosis of terminal ovarian cancer. I had a shop by this point, and didn't do much hands on care till the last few months of her life, her last month was during lockdown and we moved her into our for that and the sharp end stuff. Then DP died unexpectedly 18 months later, my shop went down the pan. Just as I decided to throw in the towel, wind it up and start again, my DF and SM went into symbiotic crisis and the shit really hit the fan in so many ways you couldn't make it up,including DF and I having to manage potential homelessness at the same time on extremely tight budgets.

SM isn't my responsibility, she rejected Dad and me after 40 years of involvement, DF died in April, somewhat SM unexpectedly, MIL died a month later - (which i do count as a blessed relief).

So I'm trying to sort out the wreckage, both emotionally and financially. Currently under a DRO, state dependent, and just waiting for UC to start poking me back into the world of work.

I'm anticipating some well-meaning advisor suggesting care work, as I'm supremely qualified, don't you think? Although the CPTSD and ten thousand yard stare might be somewhat off putting....

Absolutely don’t want or need inheritance. Want them to spend their funds in making their last years or months as comfortable as possible.

That's a brilliant idea. My aunt and uncle (also in Australia and mid 80s) have just done the exact same thing. They moved from 9 acres and big house they were never able to manage into that set up. I have seen their new house and it's really nice and the whole community has a couple of restaurants and a pool as well as the care home bit they will eventually move to.

I'm old I guess 78 but if I couldn't do some things I'd hate for my daughter to say I'm not helping you, pay someone to do it. A little help goes a long way, not saying personal hygiene but help around the house, maybe just making sure washing is done, it's not a lot to ask, I did it for my parents and more and I worked full time and lived a distance away. Maybe your one of those that think they're old and of no use now, they should all be put down when they reach a certain age. No you didn't ask to be born but nobody asks to become old and need help either.

Well I'm 'old' too in my early 70s and although my daughter would help me, I intend to pay for help so that she doesn't have to. She's busy, she works, she has children and when I see her, I want it to be for fun things not domestic chores that I can pay other people to do. I already pay for cleaning and gardening help so I'm starting as I mean to go on for as long as possible.

How cold and heartless.

Thank God you didn't have kids.