To ask if you refused to help with older relatives and how that went down?

[Fragmentedbrain]

I have 2 parents and 2 parents in law closing in on needing care. Reading other threads here it sounds as though this has a high chance of ruining my life over the next decade or so.

My husband and I work full time, love our jobs and don't have any caring responsibilities or instincts, not even a cat. I don't want to give up work or holidays or enjoying this bit of my life before I in turn am too old.

If we refuse to get involved beyond visits to say hello, how screwed are our parents?

(As we are child free I am not worried about any example setting although appreciate the relationship with siblings could get tricky)

You say you have nieces and nephews so siblings or siblings in law, don’t underestimate the impact of you opting out may have on your relationship with them.

But what’s the alternative if the DCs are both working full time and have their own DCs?
What utopia do you imagine where people of working age have the capacity to provide constant care whilst managing their own responsibilities?
How does family support stop someone getting dementia and do you genuinely think a dementia ridden person can and should live at home.

I have tried the keeping going at work full time whilst spending most weekends and free time going up to DPs 1-1.5 hrs drive away, I have only been doing it for a short while and it has nearly broken me. My work contract is ending soon and much as I love working, we can just about afford for me not to, so I will try to find a part time job so I can support my DPs more. Does mean we won’t be able to afford the additional care my DPs could easily buy in but refuse to, but hey ho maybe I will inherit a bit, but this could go on for years so probably not.

So are you expecting your children to do personal care for you when you need it?

I can't think of anything worse that I could do for my adult children than expect them to wipe my arse. The thought is utterly horrifying.

Actually no, but I hope that I have brought them up better than to leave me totally to the vagaries of the care system. My mother has dementia and lives with us, they interact with her, they have compassion for her and for me in taking care of her. When she deteriorates to a point where I cannot cope she will be placed in a nursing home that I choose and I will visit every day, I will not abandon her because I love her.
This is my duty and privilege as her child.

I'm very keen to have the option of AD to avoid the hell of old age, I know it won't be allowed so I plan to refuse all meds except pain relief to hasten my departure. My kids wiping my arse would not change my mind. Old age, from what I observe, is a slow form of torture - modern medicine has a lot to answer for.

I agree. When people talk about AD being a 'slippery slope', I think that it's not slippery enough. We should be able to write living wills about what we want to happen when we can no longer do the basic things that make us adult and human such as self care and recognising our own kids and AD should be an option.

Forget I spoke, I thought we were chatting about what it's like dealing with the jobcentre, I was empathizing!

no need for long answers
this person is cold and heartless indeed I agree
as I say if her parents were cruel shes a chip off the block if not they must wonder what they spawned
societies with family centred cultured are much more loving naturally in Portugal for example

My duty and privilege as her child! Wow that is very subservient and a bit cringe! At the end of the day not everybody had a mother that wonderful and as long as people can accept that and not condemn others that don't feel that they can be all things to that person or choose not to work for a living to be around all the time to be a carer! I didn't see my mother kiss the feet of any of any of my grandparents when they became infirm and my dad still had business to run! A lot of people dealing with rigours of caring for an elderly parent would no doubt baulk at your idea of it being a privilege! When I've had to deal with my mother's mental health breakdowns and not been allowed to grieve for my own father because of her neediness I didn't find it a wonderful privilege!

As for people who have done a bit of caring virtue signalling and being martyrs (as some have claimed). Well the "i work full time and have children and live x number of hours away" crowd are doing similar. Look.. we all work, most of us have children, and most of us live hours from older loved ones. So what? We try. DH was living in london when his father was dying in Cornwall. Working full time (big deal - don't most of us?) with two small children. But every weekend he travelled down to support his mum and give his dad some love. he's so glad he did.

I repeat - some people just been to buckle up a bit. Believe it not, you'll be glad you did when the loved ones are gone.

More gently - do it for yourself - you really will be glad you did (unless of course you had a truly abusive relationship)

Well aren’t you on your high horse? It’s wonderful that you have the space and the endless hours to care for your mum at home. You appear to be suggesting that those who do not have these resources don’t love their mums. Some people don’t have a spare room. Some have other caring duties, eg children with health issues or special needs. Others have poor mental health themselves and caring for a person with complex health needs could tip them into crisis. There’s a whole host of reasons why caring for a sick and disabled parent might not be an option for many many people. My mum stayed with us a few times when modifications were being made to her house but she was utterly miserable, very confused and quite honestly a danger to herself and others. And all she wanted to do was go home. You come across as quite smug and judgmental.

I can’t help OP sorry I’m too busy enjoying myself today and your question doesn’t feature in my life plans right now

I think having a co operative parent makes a huge difference though but otherwise adult children no matter how caring and dedicated , cannot force help on parents who are deemed to have capacity to make decisions - they can refuse carers, house adaptations. nurse visits , stop takking medicine etc . I don't think any adult child can do 100% of everything with no other input

Same here. I wang to go with dignity when I choose - not languish in some council run god awful hell home for years being kept alive - for what?

I want a last walk on the beach, some nice food, my favourite book/tv, wine and then oblivion.

We treat animals better.

I agree @willowthecat . My family were reluctant to admit that they needed help and were too quick to say they were fine, or that I would do things for them. On one occasion they refused an assessment for care and the physiotherapists contacted me afterwards to ask if I could persuade them to reconsider. The physiotherapists obviously thought care was required. I agreed but my relative refused to be assessed. And I ended up stepping in to help fill the breach until the next crisis situation was reached and my relative reluctantly agreed to accept a minimum amount of care. People can be quick to criticise the younger generation and say they are under a moral obligation to provide care, but I think there is also a moral responsibility on older people to not be obstructive and to accept care rather than expect the younger generation to do everything for them. As with many things in life, there is a balance to be found and that balance will be different for each family.

And the OP wants to continue enjoying herself-what’s wrong with that?

Most childfree people are childfree literally because they do not want to care for anybody and want their time to be their own. So why should they give that up because the older generation need care? What about their needs? I do not have children and I will not be looking after anybody in their old age apart from myself and my wife. That is my choice. Gone should be the days when women are expected to constantly sacrifice for everybody else.

Did you also miss the part where the OP says the expectation stems more from her in laws than her own parents?

Not to mention what will happen to the increasing numbers of people not having children? We will be expected to have planned for our old age both practically and financially (despite the fact that we have much less disposable income and spending power than our parents did and have).

So we will be poorer in realistic terms, have much less of a safety net than there is today, and will potentially have spent years providing care for our parents which will have impacted our careers and ability to save for our futures? How grim for us.

As a carer myself I don’t identify with being a martyr, scold or saint. What it’s given me is a small insight into the needs of people who are effectively dying. People have to be cared for and it cannot be the sole responsibility of social care because the system is just not up to it. And within families it can’t be the responsibility of just one person, although that is sometimes inevitable. We have to value the dignity of people who need care.

When I was young I thought that the elderly naturally smelled of pee. I naively had no idea, until I became a carer myself, that they smelled because they weren’t being cared for. One of the things I loved about caring for my mother was that she was always clean and wearing nice clean clothes. I know that if people work together to share care that it becomes so much easier and can even be a fun project believe it or not.

I also used to think that the world was divided into those who can face caring and those who can’t. I now see it differently. No one can or wants to face it but just as we tell young people that they often have to do things they don’t want to, the same goes for caring.

it is so common that carers face accusations of being narcissists who do it for attention, but my experience is that most of what we do is not seen by others. We just get on with it. We usually haven’t got time to scold or judge those who can’t/won’t help. I have got into the habit of putting in writing requests for help from other family members so that it is clear that I am asking not judging. They either say yes or no and we move on. no need for insults on either side.

And how long was your husband doing that for?

Some people need care for a month before passing away in their sleep. Some need care for a decade or more.

Everyone's circumstances are different.

Difficult for everyone when it’s allowed to creep up, like this.

our experience is that my mum very obviously has some form of dementia, reasonably advanced now I would suggest. She is 85 and will not acknowledge her condition, even in lucid periods. My stepdad is 80 and tries very hard to care for her.

She refuses to attend any medical appointments for any reason and won’t step outside of their exact daily routine (the same walk every day at an NT property 30 mins away, particular video programmes and particular meals). She won’t allow anyone in the house and locks herself in her bedroom if it’s essential, closes the curtains on the window cleaner, shuts the door if the postman arrives, etc. She sleeps alone now, has for some years, with her dead cat’s ashes and their current cat locked in with her. Her need for routine has resulted in stepdad continuing to drive beyond his capabilities. I won’t get in a car with them, I make excuses to drive myself when I visit.

I currently live 250 miles away with my disabled husband. We are shortly retiring to a flat 460 miles away. I can offer no physical help whatsoever - she would refuse it even if I could and wanted to - but I have been trying to persuade my very caring step dad for several years now that he really has to seek outside help. Her doctor won’t talk to me, they will to him but he doesn’t want to upset her. He sees it as his role to keep her happy. I understand to an extent because she becomes aggressive and foul mouthed when upset or bewildered.

I can see this is exhausting him: several weeks ago I had to call an ambulance for him. He was exhibiting all of the symptoms of a potential heart attack. Paramedics were brilliant. False alarm, all tests clear thank goodness. Suspect it was a panic attack. I had had to work pretty hard on him by text and WhatsApp to allow me to call 999: “I can’t go to hospital, what about mum” I’m afraid I had to reply “and what about mum if you try to ignore this and are not there for her permanently as a result?”.
I was really worried about the effect this would have on mum, strangers in their home. She decided that they were vets to see her beloved cat and chatted happily to one, getting out all of the cat photo albums, whilst the other dealt with SD.

After this incident, he acknowledged that yes, he needs help. He had a long phone call with the Alzheimer’s Society helpline. Ultimately, no one can intervene until she has a medical diagnosis, so it’s back to square one. I feel very sad for them, particularly him but also frustration and probably irritation and a little anger too, if I’m honest. I’m certain that they wouldn’t be in this awful situation, living in Groundhog Day, if SD hadn’t decided to stick his head in the sand 5 years ago, when family were already telling him that mum needed to see a doctor.

As I’ve read on many posts, they have an estate upwards of £1million, including a second property that’s sitting empty. Financing care isn’t an issue.

Care is clearly the only long term option (physically, she’s A1) Mum will absolutely rail against it. Dad tells me that they’ll have to section/sedate her and he doesn’t know how he’ll live with that. How we get her there, though, goodness knows?

I think anyone expecting to be cared for by family when they are old and infirm needs to make sure they've done their bit throughout their life to manage their health (obviously the luck of the draw plays a massive role, but so does eating well, managing your weight and doing enough exercise through your life that your mobility is as good as it can be). They should also ensure they live in a house that's as manageable as possible, before old age sets in. So something of an appropriate size, with a manageable garden, with some amenities close by. Not like my inlaws who are both struggling with a raft of obesity-related health issues, whilst living in a crumbling country cottage with a massive garden and sloping driveway, on a major A road with no pavement, no shop and no bus service.

@MrsSkylerWhite I am so sorry. That is such a difficult situation. I have seen a similar one on the Elderly Parents board but can't remember what happened. Some of the folk over there though are excellent and may be able to offer practical advice. I only have one suggestion. Although the GP cannot breach medical confidentiality by discussing your Mum's situation with you, they can listen to your concerns. You could phone up and ask to arrange to speak to the GP to pass on your concerns, or put them in writing if that would be easier.

Thank you. I have written in the past, an old fashioned letter 😁 but received no reply.

Sorry but you need to report your step father to the DVLA before he kills someone - their transport needs to not trump someone’s life. It’s completely selfish of him to continue to drive whrn he shouldn’t be on the roads. A man in my area did so because it suited him. He killed a woman - she had young children.

And? Are you saying people should have kids for purely selfish reasons! The OP hasn't had kids! She won't be a burden to anyone or guilt trip them!