To ask if you refused to help with older relatives and how that went down?

[Fragmentedbrain]

I have 2 parents and 2 parents in law closing in on needing care. Reading other threads here it sounds as though this has a high chance of ruining my life over the next decade or so.

My husband and I work full time, love our jobs and don't have any caring responsibilities or instincts, not even a cat. I don't want to give up work or holidays or enjoying this bit of my life before I in turn am too old.

If we refuse to get involved beyond visits to say hello, how screwed are our parents?

(As we are child free I am not worried about any example setting although appreciate the relationship with siblings could get tricky)

This!

I am grateful to my parents for their care of me growing up (was fed, clothed and cared for) and while I can't see myself as a full-time, live-in carer, I am always pleased to advocate for them and we help them with tech and odd bits of admin when we visit them on a weekly basis.

Not everyone wants to do their Dad's toe nails ( I do it) but I do think that if they've cared for us as children then we owe them a bit of support/advocacy in their old age.

Thank you. Needed to read that.

You didn't say how old your parents and in-laws are, and their current health state? Or what siblings either of you have? Or where the parents and in-laws are located? Or how old each of you are? People can live independently and be healthy into their 90s now.

It's good to be aware that all that caring demand doesn't tend to happen all at once. Nor do deaths. It might start with an illness requiring protracted healing and care, or not unusually, someone falls and is injured, necessitating care and caregivers. It can go down hill from there or kind of carry on at a low level for years. It may be one of them at a time, or multiples.

I suppose the best you can do is be informed about what is actually in place currently for each set of parents, and if not seen as sufficient, influence them to put plans and arrangements in place. No one typically likes to face these things, so some nudging may be necessary.

While you are ascertaining what is in place for them, if you haven't already, you and your husband might look into setting up arrangements for yourselves so you don't leave each other disadvantaged (wills, POAs for finances and health, etc). There are no guarantees and hopefully all will be fine for many years, but all it can take is one of you being injured in an accident or being diagnosed with cancer.

I take my husbands widowed sister to all her hospital appointments and to lunch weekly and on another day to collect groceries. She is becoming frailer and slower and will clearly be needing much more assistance. I myself am older. Financially she has absolutely nothing. Her living conditions are difficult. Another family member does what they can but have poor health themselves and can’t drive. Her children are quite financially comfortable and pillars of their local communities and church but have not been in touch for years. One even borrowed what small life savings she had. There may be a long drawn out period, this has been over ten years, where you might not qualify for any subsidised assistance from social services but need a lot of family support.

It very often is left to one child, however some families do muck in.

My mum had 5 siblings; one lived abroad. Those in the UK visited when they could. Mum did the housework; her brother did the gardening as required. (They were the children who lived closest. (in addition to my grandparents, my grandfather's slightly younger brother stayed in the same house.)

Two of her sisters lived at the other end of the country. The one who was a retired nurse came up for a couple of weeks each year to give Mum a break.

I spent a good few years running around after my mum as she aged and became frail and unable to look after herself, and she was also lonely and wanted company. I didn't mind doing these things, though I did miss quite a few social events when I was single to help
her out. Would I do it again, of course, but would have been more firm at saying no, at requests to come over all the time. I hope op if they were good parents to you, that you will still visit regularly and check in. As you can still have your freedom but do the right thing by your parents. My mum was on her own that is then a different situation as I couldn’t leave someone lonely and not visit or call regularly

You make me laugh OP. I don't for a moment believe a word you say. I think you thought up a crazy post and decided to put it on here to see what reaction you'd get. Well, it worked and you got lots of replies.

We all love someone hopefully and with love comes care. I have loved my parents and my children and my grandchildren and it's been a pleasure to care and look after them. I get back so much happiness and love in return.

The holidays I've taken, the fun I've had are all silly transient things in comparison.
So, if what you write is truly the depth of all you feel and this isn't just a silly post, I feel sorry for you. I feel sorry for your future self. I hope you don't end life alone and lonely. I know however old we become most of us cling on for as long as possible, we don't decide on a Friday, that it's time to pop over to Switzerland and end this life. It just doesn't work like that. You're being nieve. I hope you find real happiness.

Your relatives aren’t screwed at all. There are loads of people with no close relatives. When in need of extra help councils have a statutory duty to assess and advise as well as address needs. Hands on support would be means tested.
The whole medical appointments thing is another matter, but podiatry and even GPs do home visits and social workers are best to navigate them through it all. The main issue will be their willingness to accept ‘outside’ help - be strong or the expectation is that it’s all on you,

I'm White and English (if that matters) and I find the attitude of the OP utterly alien to be honest. Maybe it's also a generational thing. My parents were born in the 30s, me and siblings in the 70s and our kids in the last decade, so maybe we're old school.

I can't believe you wouldn't pitch in at all to help the people who raised you. I watched how my parents looked after my nan and great aunty, the elderly relatives around in my childhood, and more recently their siblings. It makes me wonder what the point of family is if not to help each other? Obviously this is in the case of a normal loving family.

My parents are doing incredibly well and are still living in their own home but we go over every week and help if things need doing, bits of DIY, we sorted an occupational therapy appointment recently, doctor visits if needed etc. This weekend we got there and the garden was overgrown. The gardener has ghosted them but they'd not said, so we all just pitched in and mowed and weeded. It was a lovely afternoon and whilst they would never have expected it I could tell it really lifted my parents, who also got as involved as they could. That brought me more joy than going out for a bottomless brunch or whatever, but each to their own I suppose.

Eloquently put. Best of luck to you.❤️

Of course she is

Why do you say so? OP is not a caring person. She says so. My opinion (FWIW) is that you reap what you sow. Uncaring? Then don't expect anyone to care for you, whatever the circumstances. What a depressing way to lead a life.

The plan would probably work for physical frailty (if you can afford Switzerland) but the problem with dementia is it creeps up on you.

My nan looked after her sister in law with dementia, she always used to come home saying she'd end her life if she ended up like her. She ended up like her.

She didn't even know she needed care, she'd say she was fine and could look after herself and she genuinely believed that. She didn't know the laundry she was hanging out hadn't been washed and she'd had breakfast twice because she forgot she already ate it.

It’s already in my plan

Part of me gets some of your points. I have told both sets of parents I am not doing elderly care.

my youngest sister lives at home, pays no rent and completely monopolises my mum’s time - she been told she going to be UP when we get to that point. She can never find time to come to my house so I will visit when convenient.

my inlaws my DH is the oldest the 2nd sibling has had weekly childcare for years and years for her children I average less than 2 days childcare per year. I have also said to them SIL is UP.

mine is a reap what you sow, they have prioritised other relationships and such I expect those siblings to pick up the elder duties.

As someone who has worked in social care for over a decade I would say you don't need to be involved in a practical sense but I would ensure that you visit regularly and are a presence. Those that have family oversight fair better than those that don't, it shouldn't be that way but I've witnessed it again and again. Services are overstretched and things can get missed.

The OP asked if anyone out there had already done this - stated clearly that they won't be helping with the care of parents or ILs - and how that went down.

From my POV as someone who did undertake significant care, including personal care, for a parent (willingly) if I had had a sibling who opted out from the start I cannot imagine how that relationship would have survived. I was supported by my siblings all pitching in - helping with admin, taking the occasional load of laundry, giving me an evening off once in a while. We all did what we could manage because we cared about our parent and we cared about each other. We all had other commitments, lives, kids, jobs, etc but luckily we all lived reasonably nearby and made it work.

When our parent died there was no guilt, nothing to resent and everyone remains on good terms. The estate was split equally as our parent had wished.

The point I want to make really is that 'caring' is not just about the hands on care, not just about personal care Not everyone can do that, but I would urge the OP not to abandon siblings. If you have sibling/s who are able and wish to be involved with parents' care please do what you can to support them. Could that not be your contribution?

One final note: there has been lots of talk of planning ahead and making provision. That isn't just for people in their 70s and 80s. I hope every single poster who has written this is already sorting out their own plans for when infirmity comes, because when it comes there isn't always a warning, you know. Life can come at you like a tsunami.

My husband and I have had my mother in law from hell for over 15 years, she's 95 and it's like "My big fat Greek wedding" on steroids. I've been through hell, and my husband is really struggling. We are in our 50s and unable to enjoy our time as we have to do everything around her. She refuses to go in a home, and couldn't afford it anyway. If I could go back in time, I would have put my foot down for the sake of my life with my husband, and our sanity. So you do what is right for you, not what you think society expects.

Aye, and even as a carer or advocate you need to have polite balls of steel when your relative is in hospital or under LA care to hammer the issues home.

As a result of recent experiences with my lateDF, my SM and MIL, once I've sorted out a very large pile of sadmin, I intend to look at getting involved in some sort of advocacy for those who don't have any support, because I can't stand to see people suffer at their most vulnerable.

Just putting my two pennies in as someone whose day job it is to assess for and organise care for the elderly leaving hospital…

There are levels of infirmity that you cannot imagine unless you have had personal experience of them. Obviously i see the worst cases so this may have skewed my viewpoint. Those without family support undoubtedly have the absolute worst time. As previous posters have said, if they can afford private care (and a live in carer costs £2k+ a week) then they can in many ways replace the million and one little physical care needs that a family might provide, but a care package provided by social services funding will cover the absolute basics, and often not even that. Showers are considered a luxury, as an example, so thousands of elderly people across the country haven’t had their hair washed for months. Meals provided will be microwave meals only. Shopping is done from the local corner shop, so they can’t have their favourite items from Sainsbury’s or wherever. Cleaning will involve a very brief tidy and maybe a crap hoover irregularly. They will turn up when is convenient for the Care Company’s schedule, so “bedtime” calls start at 5pm, and visits can vary between days so you quite know when people will arrive. It’s not the carers’ fault- they are given impossible tasks to do in tiny amounts of time. 30 minutes to get someone out of bed using a sling and hoist, give incontinence hygiene, flannel wash and dress them, give breakfast and leave them settled and happy. Absolutely no time for a conversation or getting a reluctant elderly person to open up about what is troubling them, or explore that sore stomach/notice that rash on their back and encourage them to make a GP appointment, take out the bins, investigate why the tap is dripping in the bathroom, clean the carpet where a sticky drink has been spilled…. Etc etc…. And this is all presuming they are alert and assertive and still have all their cognitive facilities. When cognitive decline comes into it, things can be really pitiful. People don’t know what’s going on, or who these (often different each time) people are who are entering their home and grabbing them and taking off their clothes etc. Or they don’t remember that they are too unsteady to do their own tasks, so fall trying to make a cup of tea on their own. So many times in my job I think “they just need a loving family involved”. Nothing can really replace it. Some people truly have no one, but many are being cared for by kindly neighbours etc who can’t bear to leave someone so unsupported. So you might find others step in to that “family” role in your place and you have to decided if you are ok with someone else reluctantly taking on that burden on your behalf and judging you for that. All this to say, I think it’s one thing to make a statement that you won’t be getting involved, and another to actually stand by and bear witness as your parent struggles with needs that can’t be met by carers and do nothing. And I don’t blame you for this- there’s no way you can know how bad things can get unless you’ve had that experience. Extreme old age is hidden away in our society.

I have seen how hard life can get for those caring for their elderly family members. It can be akin to the hardest days of baby raising, but with none of the hope and joy that things are moving towards life. I’ve seen it seriously damage people’s mental health, let alone take years of their life, just when, as you point out, you are becoming aware of how finite your own years are. But I am gearing up for the possibility of caring for my own parents/ in-laws as they head towards infirmity. The alternative is not something I would inflict on those who have loved me so well for so many years.

Maybe you will be lucky. Maybe they won’t need much help, and will go quickly when their time comes. It’s the best outcome for all really.

You will expect to get inheritance though??

My DM lived with me for a year when she became too poorly to live alone, and a carer would come in every morning to get her up and every evening to get her ready for bed (I put her to bed myself at 10.30 every night). Like you, I couldn't have done any personal care, so I was most appreciative of the carers.

My parents and in laws have never been demanding or asked for help.

I love my parents and when my Dad was diagnosed with cancer he still never asked or complained. However I WANTED to help and offered to do whatever I could, whether drive to appointments, shop, and he only took it up when needed. Now my Mum is on her own, same goes, I will do anything to help her, though she doesn't like to ask.

They have brought me up, supported me when younger so any other attitude would be plain selfish to me. Xxx

I doubt it if OP wants them to spend their savings on care.

Your existence sounds quite bleak and defined actually by fear rather than any kind of heroic act of self liberation.

I’d recommend therapy and exploring why the thought of providing any support to others feels so awful to you. Even if you don’t change your mind, it might at least make explaining it to your relatives make you sound slightly less like a narcissist!