To ask if you refused to help with older relatives and how that went down?

[Fragmentedbrain]

I have 2 parents and 2 parents in law closing in on needing care. Reading other threads here it sounds as though this has a high chance of ruining my life over the next decade or so.

My husband and I work full time, love our jobs and don't have any caring responsibilities or instincts, not even a cat. I don't want to give up work or holidays or enjoying this bit of my life before I in turn am too old.

If we refuse to get involved beyond visits to say hello, how screwed are our parents?

(As we are child free I am not worried about any example setting although appreciate the relationship with siblings could get tricky)

That's admirable, but maybe come back and judge others after you've been wiping her bottom for a year or two...

You do realize that someone who doesn’t have children won’t really have a choice in the matter, right?
There will literally not be anyone when the time comes.
My mother in law got the train for two hours a day three times a week to see her aunt when she got cancer. My neighbour does the shopping for some people who are stuck nearby every week. A few more call in for chats and a cup of tea. Don’t assume you’re alone just because you don’t have children, there’s some great people in the world!

I’d put that in a very different category to OP’s original post!

I have a number of nieces and nephews but I definitely wouldn't want them to look after me. Sometimes I worry when I buy them birthday gifts etc that their parents think I'll expect this down the line. No way. Just nobody develop a gambling habit then take advantage of me in my dotage to fund it that's all I ask.

@stayathomer There absolutely are. And as I said earlier in this thread I have accepted responsibility for two non-related people. However that doesn’t mean that someone will be willing to do it for me.

Sure, I hope someone is willing to help me in the future… but as the saying goes “hope is not a plan”

Agree. I was just pointing out that these things are nuanced.

@Cyclebabble Do the men get involved in the hands on care?

Are you suffering from depression, OP? Genuine question and no obligation to answer, obviously, but you have a very bleak take on the world, so it's hard not to wonder.

There are all sorts of ways in which you could support them and some people might feel comfortable with some tasks and some with other tasks. These might include finding out about benefits (eg attendance allowance), help filling in forms, navigating the 'modern world' e.g tech, websites, finances & smartphones, discussing health worries, finding a gardener / cleaner or doing domestic & DIY tasks.

Speaking from vast experience here, each and any of the tasks listed above can take an inordinate amount of time, depending on the prent involved, their physical and mental state and their current and future ability to navigate IT and the care system. Ditto 'the occasional trip to the chiropodist' mentioned in previous posts.

For me it was something of a slippery slope. What started as sometimes taking a parent to the supermarket, escalated rapidly to me being the one who was called upon for everything. I hated it every time the phone rang because it would be another request demand for help, or a plea because the TV/phone/microwave/whatever 'isn't working anymore'. And when social services or specialist care made suggestions or offered the kind of help my parent should have had, it was met with "No thanks, ModernDilemma will do it. We prefer it that way."

Honestly, there was a year when I wept every day with frustration. It was only when my 91 year old father went into hospital that the issue was forced.

PILs went on a similar journey with dp and his siblings. What started as one organising cleaning help then a carer, became a nightmare when MIL would sack them fortnightly, stating that she didn't need any help.

And despite best laid plans things can take their own course. dp was on a visit to MIL when she fell. Paramedic assessment said she didn't need to go to hospital and dp was thrust into being the de-facto carer for his parents (both of them since neither could operate independently). That included all domestic tasks, all admin, and personal care.

PIL live 2 hours away so dp moved in for a week. Which turned into 3 months (with some respite from his siblings when they weren't at work). Because someone was in the house social services didn't deem PIL to be at immediate risk and they were very low priority against all the other priorities.

When my time comes (or actually well before it) I plan to pay for a network of support - a PA to help with life admin; a tech person to help with whatever technology is around; cleaner/housekeeper to change the sheets, help with cleaning, help with shopping; a companion to take me on trips in the car. All of them just a couple of hours a week. I would rather use my money on that, and then on whatever residential care that I might need, than be a burden to my dc during my life. I'd prefer that my dc fulfill the role of family, keeping me involved in social activities rather than being at my beck and call.

No - I am just very realistic and don't live in a fluffy nicey delusion world (no offence to the majority who do).

No, thought if you continued acknowledging their birthday and have a relationship with them, they'll want to help you.

My child free aunt has always checked in, she's 70's and fit, I'd be happy to help her, if the time comes.

Snort.

Now I know you're trolling.

Ooos so sorry please delete previous as I can’t find now, hopefully already gone

The one situation where I refused to provide care was with my husband's ex.

Her Affair Partner died. [I realise that that sounds snotty, but I was 20 yrs my husband's senior, and the ex was very good at giving people the impression that I was the OW, when the reality was that she'd acquired a younger man at work.] My DH's pal then became her next partner. He died.

The ex needed a day procedure. DH's SIL told me that she couldn't come up to take the ex to hospital because she was helping to care for her SIL who was undergoing cancer treatment. (Not sure why the son couldn't volunteer.)

There was no sign of Dh's daughter stepping up, so I volunteered because I felt sorry for the woman. (I later felt a fool, but that's a whole 'nother story.)

To my abject horror, I later realised that I was being lined up as the ex's carer. (This news reached me via mutual friends.) I made it clear that that wouldn't be happening. In the meantime, the ex acquired another partner, a widower with two daughters who now live with him.

Already did that often for my mum who got an early dementia before she died. As I have wiped my sons when they were younger. It's not pleasant but when you love the person you just get on with it. Here it was a question of OP offering zero help to her parents. You can help in many ways that don't imply personal hygiene (like paying/organising for a carer to do that).

To answer your question about how screwed they would be - quite a bit. As someone only at the start of this journey, I’ve found that they’ve absolutely needed my help to advocate in health situations, to help accessing funding and equipment, to help form-filling which is designed to be as cumbersome as possible to save money, to sort cleaners so they’re not living in squalor, to prevent them being taken advantage of or forgotten about. There’s a huge range of help required before you even get to the personal care or in-a-home stage.

There is no money around nowadays to help old people as much as they need sadly, and yes the health and social care will heavily push for you to step in and fill the gap. Lots of money would help with some of this - maybe if you don’t want to help with the above, you could consider paying for other people to help? Then you’ve fulfilled any obligations without impacting significantly on your time / holidays. But if you’re looking for reassurance that they’ll be fine and looked after if you just step away completely, then you’re probably deluding yourself.

When I was younger, I would have said exactly the same as you OP. I don't like anyone being reliant on me, I resented any expectation that I would give up my life for elderly parents and am entirely squeamish about the idea of 'personal care'.

I was, and am, single with no kids or siblings or wider family. My DF died - quickly and unexpectedly - when I was in my mid 40s and I was living over 200 miles away. My job was higher-earning, and one I'd never have got again if I'd given it up, and I needed that single wage to pay my mortgage and my occupational pension.

My DM, who I had a somewhat 'difficult' relationship with, outlived my DF by 15 years, into her 90s. I did not give up my job or do personal care or allow her to come and live with me. What I did do was:

• shuttle between where I lived and her home, initially in my holidays, and phoned weekly. She was still independent.

- increased my visit times as the years went on, began to help deal with some practical admin. She developed severe osteoporosis. - ramped up the remote help as she was diagnosed with Parkinson's and stopped driving, began to develop some cognitive impairment. - spent the final 5 years of her life shuttling up and down in stress, took over her admin, finances, insisted she get a cleaner etc. Began wrangling medical and social care as we entered lockdown 1 and had to choose a care home, £5 - 6k a month, thankfully she had money. - kept up the shuttle visits to the care home while maintaining her house, my house and job and dealing with every person who she had contact with and all admin. I hired extra carers and threw her money at problems.

She died not long ago as I entered my 60s. I consider myself lucky she had saved a lot of money or it could have been a lot more stressful, arguing for for funding for everything. I couldn't have done less, no matter how I felt about not giving up my life, it wasn't humanly possible.

My eyes have also been opened in regards to how little 'care' is actually out there, whether you have money or not. There's a full-blown care crisis which is only getting worse. People need advocates and eyes on them at the very least. It's not possible to say 'sort yourselves out' because elderly people can become very different from their younger, even a little younger, selves and neither of you realises that until it's on top of you.

I refused to be a Victorian Daughter but there was no real way of escaping these aspects of her care. And I'm glad I didn't run away. Although my inheritance came in handy to pay my therapy bill.

So OP and OP's DH. Your parents raised you, fed you, looked after you when you were growing up but in their time of need you'll just shrug them off?

Some do. My cousin oldest DS, never married has dedicated 10 years to his mother's care, she is in the last stages now of dementia, bed bound, 3 sisters.
Granted, it is usually woman, some men help too.

Just like I had a maternal instinct to look after my children. I have a filial instinct to look after my mum if she ever needs it.
but my situation is very different. My mum has helped loads with my kids.

It's just not possible for many people, even if they are willing.

People may live long distances away from their parents, not have sufficient space for their parents to live with them, and have full-time jobs with long commutes that occupy most of their time. And while it would be lovely if more people could give up work to care for their elderly parents, for many it simply isn't affordable, with so many still having mortgages into their 60s and having to pay into pensions in order to fund their own retirement.

There's no way I could have afforded to give up work to care for my DM even if I had been willing to, and it wouldn't have been safe for her to move in with me and be alone while I was at work. I think she would have been incredibly confused by moving into a new place. She used to forget where to get off the bus to get home to the house she'd lived in for 40 years, she'd never have adjusted to being somewhere different.

same here (not Indian though). Just can't comprehend this attitude.
This life is not about me only. My happiness is definitely not more important than my parents' comfort

This, I can't believe the amount of people who see elderly parents as a burden and don't want to help them.

I was friends with a lady for over 30 years, she had no children but plenty of nieces and nephews. None of them visited her as she got older but as soon as she passed away they all came crawling out of the woodwork to go through her stuff and see what she'd left them in her will. Shameful behaviour.

Sure - you're right. Old age is amazing and life is a bed of thorn free roses.

You sound very selfish