To ask if you refused to help with older relatives and how that went down?

[Fragmentedbrain]

I have 2 parents and 2 parents in law closing in on needing care. Reading other threads here it sounds as though this has a high chance of ruining my life over the next decade or so.

My husband and I work full time, love our jobs and don't have any caring responsibilities or instincts, not even a cat. I don't want to give up work or holidays or enjoying this bit of my life before I in turn am too old.

If we refuse to get involved beyond visits to say hello, how screwed are our parents?

(As we are child free I am not worried about any example setting although appreciate the relationship with siblings could get tricky)

I never did personal care for my wonderful FIL as he didn't need it, but it was an absolute privilege to visit him, although it was a long journey to where he lived and difficult with children, schools etc. He eventually moved around the corner from us when he was in his ninetees, and I took him out, cooked him meals regularly etc. And he loved coming to our church. My parents lived nearer and we gave them help when they needed it, too. Neither set of parents were demanding - they were just lovely people who had loved us and wanted the best for us and we loved them and wanted the best for them, too. We were very blessed in our relationships, but tbh, in my opinion, caring for the vulnerable is just the sign of a civilised society.

I stopped helping with my parents when they hit state pension age. I'm nc with them so no idea how they're managing, and I don't care. I'm able to enjoy my holidays and free time and that works well for me.

I never can understand those who do not understand it. It takes a great deal of coercion to build a society, usually with religion and class systems so that there are obligations and rights. When you realise that you never consented to the system in the first place you can question everything and when you have freedom you may even go against the system as OP has.

OP - are you an antinatalist?

Good grief at your age you should be able to still go out (or away) when you want to. They must manage all day when you're at work.

You might like to have a look at this MN board for some support. 💐www.mumsnet.com/talk/elderly_parents

There is being pragmatic which I like to think I am, but there is also coldness.
Everyone to their own views but written down like that, it’s pretty brutal.
Family is a pyramid scheme…. I have no words 😂

@Fragmentedbrain would you care for your DH if need be?

Bloody hell, OP, I thought I was cold, but I think I've met my match in you. 😅😅😅

Absolutely agree with the above.This thread is shocking, I hope the views here aren't representative of society.

That said, there is either some naivety amongst many here or lack of experience with elderly care as there are unrealistic expectations regarding the help that is available.

Carers will do the bare minimum in their short visits but they don't help with finances and all of the paperwork that comes with helping an older person. Carers don't help with managing medical appointments and other life admin that people with cognitive decline can't manage.

In some ways physical frailty is much easier to deal with because they are more likely to ask for help, people with cognitive decline often don't even know they need it.

If you're lucky enough to have money you can pay a cleaner or for personal assistant type care but the majority of pensioners can't afford the care they need.

I really don't believe that most people would be comfortable to sit and watch their parents decline until they become bad enough for social services to get involved, so I think (hope) the views here are down to lack of experience.

I do have experience with elderly relatives and I think we're heading for disaster in terms of social care. The support just isn't there if you don't have money, and with an ageing population and fewer adults having children this is a ticking time bomb.

And a shout out for churches. Bible teaching churches encourage respect and care for old people, so many churches do care for their elderly (and for elderly people they know of who don't go to church) - because that is mandated in the bible. Our (popular) church is mainly comprised of young families - all with busy lives. But old people are chatted to and invited to meals etc. It's not perfect, (no church is) but the people there try to do what pleases God- and caring for the vulnerable is part of that.

I don’t think it’s controversial. We feel it’s a moral obligation to readily euthanise animals who are very infirm, suffering and have little quality of life. I think we should apply the same approach to humans tbh. I know I’d much rather have full control over when I die and how, than have to rely on other people to do all the things I’d rather be doing myself but can’t.

That would be my preferred exit route too, rather than be a burden on my kids. Nothing about an old age where you have to rely on others for care is appealing.

I find this really sad. If your family is a loving family then you should all help each other out. There should definitely be a realistic limit to this i agree, as no one should give up their lives to care for elderly relatives/grandchildren but to not want to do anything other than pop in and say hello is the height of callousness in my view. I couldn't do this to my mum or aunty I think its hideous.

Let me just say that I recognise this OPs penchant for extreme drama and am kicking myself for responding.
Previous threads are instructive.

Oh god. You again with your ridiculous goady opinions. Are you trying to be Mumsnet's answer to Katie Hopkins? So tedious.

What? Bloody hell.

Is this about resources, or is this 'moral obligation' a matter of you assuming no one who's old has any quality of life left and can only be a burden on those around them? I mean, it's one thing for you to know what you want (your prerogative, much as I can't relate to it) and quite another to want to dictate that everyone should off themselves when they're 'old'. (What do you class as 'old', out of interest?)

Plenty of 'old' people still have a good quality of life and many don't even need any care at all. Who knew?!

I’m not the OP but what level of care are we talking? If my DP became so incapacitated he couldn’t do personal care, no, I wouldn’t. Support him by taking on more chores if he got cancer or lost a limb but was still independent and mentally capable? Yes.

With respect I think you are also being naive. There are a lot of us in the the 40-60 age range who are simultaneously dealing with aging parents with no children of our own to look to for future help.

So while we are facing the challenges of our parents knowing we have fuck all support in our future.

So yeah that’s fun 😕

Yep. I can relate.

Sorry to be the voice of doom, but my DM could do online shopping during lockdown and use facebook - not a technical whiz by any means but she could get by - but simply can't manage it anymore. She says 'everything is more complicated now' forgetting that she could manage to use these same websites just 3-5 years ago. Aging can happen very rapidly.😔

Oh, just realised, it’s Menopause Woman. I wish I hadn’t bothered now.

Meh..Just because the OP isn’t genuine doesn’t mean the thread isn’t worthwhile.

Ah I wish I had known this before I got involved in the thread! Debating with nutters is the the last bastion of madness.

OP, i think you have done the right thing by not having children.

Best cancel my bereavement counselling tomorrow and let the currently passive suicidal ideation develop into something more beneficial to society.

I mean, currently I'm widowed, poor, out of the job market, and grieving my Dad, who no lingers needs me. I can easily talk myself into the moral obligation if you like.

I'm sure my DS will breathe a huge sigh of relief as long as I make sure I've cleared up any loose ends.

I mean, I'm relatively healthy at the moment for my age - 56 - but I don't have anything meaningful to contribute, zero money or chance of making it, and have run out of elderly relatives to care for.

Ironic how much effort my social prescriber and counsellor are putting in to convince me otherwise though. Bless them.

My cats would miss me though.

@Fragmentedbrain I kind of admire your honesty and I suspect that many feel as you do but wouldn’t admit it. I am currently trying to keep my 90-something frail Mum from needing to be admitted to hospital and it’s pretty exhausting but I’m happy to do it. She has always been a very realistic and unsentimental person who planned for her old age, moving into supported accommodation 10 years ago, she needed help to sell her old house and move into the new place, which I and DH supported her with. The alternative would be to let her struggle, reach a crisis, then what? Hospitals always want next of kin details and in my experience expect daughters or daughters in law to be a.contactable and b. willing to help. You would need to be very clear about what would happen e.g. a parent was admitted to hospital. Ultimately you could be totally hands off and uninvolved, but this would mean allowing bad situations to progress and poorer levels of care for your parents. You’ll need to push back against not only expectations from your parents and in laws but the various professionals and agencies that get involved as we become more elderly and/or unwell. Your parents need to be under no illusions about what you are prepared to do and not do, and make really good plans for their old age. It really annoys me how many men get a free pass when it comes to any caring responsibilities and how many women struggle on. Your approach isn’t one that I would take but you are right to be honest and clear about it.