To ask if you refused to help with older relatives and how that went down?

[Fragmentedbrain]

I have 2 parents and 2 parents in law closing in on needing care. Reading other threads here it sounds as though this has a high chance of ruining my life over the next decade or so.

My husband and I work full time, love our jobs and don't have any caring responsibilities or instincts, not even a cat. I don't want to give up work or holidays or enjoying this bit of my life before I in turn am too old.

If we refuse to get involved beyond visits to say hello, how screwed are our parents?

(As we are child free I am not worried about any example setting although appreciate the relationship with siblings could get tricky)

No siblings, no children of my own.

DH died during lockdown, so I was in isolation at a time in my life when most people would have been in contact with immediate family.

I had to select DH's coffin from an online catalogue. Everything had to be done via phone and email - apart from signing the document to say that I'd pay for the funeral.

It took around a year to sort out the memorial because of problems relating to lockdown.

I'd been more or less forced into early retirement at 58 when my HT refused to allow me to cut my hours to a 3 dy week.

I later found out that I'd been given incorrect advice by my union. I had a 4 dy week for one year to allow me to manage DH's hospital appointments. I should have insisted on staged retirement rather than flexible working. The union financial adviser had told me that there was no difference. There is: staged retirement allows you more rights. I had found myself picking up all the problems caused by my 'day off' when I got in to work on a Monday morning. My HT didn't tell me until I'd signed on the dotted line that he wasn't putting someone into my post on my 'day off'. I can't give too many details on here, but it would have been easily managed.

[ETA Thanks to my HT's determination to save money, I was in constant catch-up mode. Was still in the school building 7.30 some nights. Got home one night and discovered that DH had scalded himself badly, making a cup of coffee.]

If I had gone down the staged retirement route, my HT would have had to be more obliging.

I can't say too much, but after I retired, I was actually called in to a tribunal (not directly related to me) because of my HT's behaviours. That was an extremely stressful process, even though I wasn't the member of staff who'd made the complaint.

A relative exactly my age did go down the staged retirement route in the same authority and she's quite happily working a two-day week.

As is the case with many women in my situation, my social life consisted of my work colleagues. As DH's health deteriorated, it became harder to get out of the house.

DH's son was told to shield. His daughter decided to shield - apparently she had adult onset asthma - and said that she didn't want the 20 yr old grandchild to attend the funeral in case it was triggering. (The grandchild's father had died when they were only 9.) Travelling wasn't a concern for the grandchild - they'd been abroad during lockdown for part of their uni course.

3 of my cousins and some work colleagues - and former pupils of my husband - attended the funeral, as did his ex to represent the kids.

I'm trying to get out more. I had a few ops after Dh died - nothing dreadful, just things that needed to be taken care of. I was referred to physio and then an exercise class. I now go to the gym about 4 times a week and that helps, so I'm gradually trying to make a life for myself.

I did have a couple of health scares, but that's been sorted out.

I did some supply teaching, but my speciality isn't maths where most of the jobs are round here. I left the teaching register this year. I'm still in touch with some of my younger teaching colleagues, but they're miles away - I'm happy to say that they've done very well for themselves and have obtained better posts in other areas.

Anyway, I'm trying to get my head straight, to get more organised and to get out more.

As someone is that situation, I know. Inequality around caring is worse than ever but we do, as a society, need to address how we care for the most vulnerable members of our society. Yes, women are generally burdened with care work, so men do need to step forward and do their share.

Never wished for a hug emoji on here so much 🫂

Solidarity ❤️‍🔥

In the short term, to avoid infecting others, especially the elderly and vulnerable…

My brother lives 3 miles from our elderly parent, I live 70 miles away. It takes 3.5 hours to get to my parents house. So a 7 hour round trip. My brother would have a 30 minute bus ride or 15 minute in a car.

My brother has not been to see our parent for 15 years. The entire responsibility of supporting my elderly parent falls on me and my adult children.

My brother is waiting for his inheritance. He's indifferent to the impact his actions has on me.

Yes, it feels very unfair, my parent despite his absence, think my brother is the sun, moon and stars rolled into one. I resent him and the situation I find myself in.

I fully empathise with you and the frustration you feel OP.

Well I'd probably be at work.

What is “planning for old age” by the way?

What do I need to do if I want to have a good plan? Is it about moving to a home with adaptations? What do people do, normally?

None at all unless that old lady was asking for help multiple times a day, calling you at work, expecting you to wait on the road indefinitely on the off chance that she wanted to cross at some point and then biting your head off for not being there at the exact moment when she needed the help.

My experience.
Close emotionally to mum. Dad didn't make it to retirement age. Mum moved hundreds of miles away on retirement at 65.
Mum always independent. Saved every penny cos she didn't want to be a burden. Very tech savvy, early adopter of tech, esp Apple.
Was 80 when covid hit. Had signs of worsening cognitive function for a few years before that.
Moved nearer us (20 mins drive) in 2021 to a retirement flat.
Where we are now.
Can't manage an online food order.
If there is a supermarket delivery, she can't manage to undo much of the packaging.
She can't manage to call on a mobile phone, but can call me on landline with a dedicated button.
She has carers for an hour a day. And friends in her flats.
However, I have to visit every day at the weekend.
I am called if she falls/goes into hospital/needs something.
Meanwhile my sibling fucks off for the entire summer and is just waiting for her inheritance

It’s similar here in that you basically need a hospital admission to get plugged into the social care system for a state/county paid for nursing home.

This is why when my step dad started to have falls I had to let everyone know (long story about ‘everyone’) to call an ambulance and not let him refuse transport to the hospital. Once at the hospital I told the social workers he had no home to go back to (again long story but it was a true statement).

The other route is self-pay. This can get a little complicated. But on a simplistic level If you self pay for a while and then run out of money then the state/county will step in and start paying. Generally speaking you can stay at the same facility.

The other option is to ‘buy in’ to a facility. You pay to ‘buy’ an apartment and then pay monthly rent for an independent living apartment then when the time comes the money that you bought in with pays for your assisted living/memory care/skilled nursing/hospice.

I think for me the reason I don’t want to get involved is I see it as a slippery slope. As child free I see how much my partner is expected to do for his mum by his siblings. My brother has already laid out the expectation that I am to take on the care of our parents because he is too busy with his kids and family life.

I think for the child free if we saw the caring load being taken on equally by our siblings then we wouldn’t be so reticent to step up. Whereas we know in reality our siblings expect us to take on the whole burden of care and we aren’t prepared to do it.

So either I force my parents to make provision for themselves or I end up doing it all. And my life isn’t going to be that of me and my partner caring for 2 sets of parents- because that’s a full time job.

Interesting post OP. I wouldn't expect my children to care for me but I think my parents have some expectations. And that's terrifying.

We do, but is it to anyone's benefit to force people who do not want to do do caring work to do it? I can't think they would give great care at all. We might have to think outside of the box for this one.

Yes to both, and it definitely helps. We're in a place now though where the Alzheimer's is worsening so we're in a round of various assessments/appointments atm, and DM recently developed OCD and also has a habit of not telling me when she's unwell or needs something as she 'doesn't want to be a bother', so stress levels are high at present! We are upping the care visits in the near future as it's definitely needed, but I've been reluctant to do that till now in case she needs more complex/constant care in the future that has to be paid for. (She's self-funding so although the Attendance Allowance helps, she's only eligible for lower rate so it's a bit of a balancing act.) Thanks for asking. 🙂

Some time ago I had to refuse to help someone. I had to tell social services that I would not do a single thing, would not lift a finger and was not responsible for them and not to call me again.

I felt horrible. It was heartbreaking to do but I had to do it and i had to make them believe I would leave this person to die rather than help them. ( i didnt put it like that but i made them believe no matter what, i would not step up) in order to force them to put appropriate care into place for this person rather than leave an untrained person to try to take care of someone with serious physical needs all alone.

Social services will try anything to make you do the caring because its one less person they have to fund, even if you dont have the time or the skillset to provide adequate care.

No. I didn't ask to be born and I'm not remotely glad I was. I think having kids is selfish pyramid scheme living. My parents are good people relative to the typical person but I am not grateful to them for my existence.

What so a kind of planned incompetence is the way out of responsibility? Oh, I don't feel like doing that, because it doesn't fit with how I want my life to be. Maybe someone else can do it for me. Is that what we are advocating for now?

Wow. That’s bloody cold.

Saving money is the single most important thing you can do. This will give you the most options.

Technically they aren’t screwed. Unfortunately the reality can be quite different. Without help they will be relying on a broken system. With no family to fight their corner they may find themselves in a difficult position if they are unable to
advocate for themselves. I have no personal experience, but I have seen the way things work by watching what my MIL has gone through with her parents. Both her and my FIL spent a lot of time advocating for their parents. Luckily money was not an issue and they received excellent care at very good cat homes, but even then, there was a lot of organisational and practical stuff they needed support with, apart from the day to day hands on care (which was provided by the care home).

To be honest, I feel terrified by the prospect myself. I work full time and will be until I’m at least 60. To put it mildly, I’m exhausted and don’t have any time or bandwidth to manage the needs of elderly parents. So I totally get it when people say they can’t manage caring responsibilities or don’t want to.

It’s killing me looking after both parents and holding down a full time job. They live with me now, it’s slightly easier but they expect so much. I have to ask if I can go out and am met with a whole host of me being cruel leaving them, guilt tripping me if something happens and the wonderful ‘we looked after you’.

At this rate I will be gone before them. They have no savings but Dad gets nothing paid for as his pension is just over the limit. It’s a fucking nightmare and my lovely, happy memories of childhood are long gone.
Don’t get involved OP, it’s a viscous circle

hmm I do not recall saying that? But ultimately if someone says that what can you do? Are you saying that you can force people to taking on "caring" responsibilities in a free society?

What I was saying is that we may have to think of other ideas to tackle this is enough people are unwilling or unable to fulfil these obligations. I don't see things going back to where you can shame mostly women into doing it. Even if you could we have an aging population...

Quite. I’m over 70 and still paying tax!

I am in excellent health and do not use any services except my free bus pass and the usual, i.e. refuse collection, street lighting, parks and recreation, et cetera……. But I hope that if I ever do it’ll be there for me - even if I do choose to live abroad for part of the year in the meantime.

I mean each to their own but I don't really care. I think love is more fun than you suggest. I will aim to go to Switzerland when I'm old and if I'm totally honest I think everyone who gets enough warning has a moral obligation to do the same.

That sounds so awful. I'm really sorry.