Where is the money going to come from to meet the UK people expectations?

[Pandersmum]

So assuming that:

• everyone who receives disability benefits needs them and may actually believe they should be entitled to more
• pensioner benefits are non negotiable and again many believe they should be greater than current
• working people (most) believe they are already taxed highly and believe they cannot be taxed any more without further impact to their feeling of unfairness and resentment of the system
• it is unreasonable to expect young people with ADHD or other similar ND disorders / mental health challenges to work, even if they have qualifications and therefore they must be financially supported by the state
• Mental health challenges are very real in any age of person and therefore they must be financially supported by the state and if in work, by their employers
• rent (whatever level) should be supported by the state because it is a basic right to have a home
• NHS treatment (& the best treatment) should be free be all, no matter how expensive it is or whatever their age because people pay their taxes
• businesses are businesses and are there to make profits for their owners - therefore they can choose which country they operate in / pay their taxes in - if they don’t like the UK tax system, they can move somewhere else
• ’in work benefits’ are necessary to support ‘low paid workers, often in essential jobs’ to gain similar amounts of financial remuneration to those on benefits
• high net worth individuals can move if they don’t like the UK tax system

So just where is the money going to come from to fund the UK population of financial expectation of what the state should provide?

I agree. However, once charges are made the quality of the food would have to improve. To be fair, on the rare occasions I have been in hospital, the food has been OK.

This could also extend to prescription charges. DH and I bring in about £300k between us but because we are over 60, we get free prescriptions. It’s absurd.

The A and E one simply charge them whilst they are there.

The DNA appointments might be a bit more difficult but maybe stop them from booking a further appointment until they’ve paid the charge.

@fanmepls maybe they would think twice about not attending if they can’t afford to pay the charge. DNAs cost the NHS a stupid amount of money.

However, once charges are made the quality of the food would have to improve. To be fair, on the rare occasions I have been in hospital, the food has been OK.

Every hospital I've been to has an M&S or Pret so I've always bought stuff there for patients! The food isn't that bad but not great.

This could also extend to prescription charges. DH and I bring in about £300k between us but because we are over 60, we get free prescriptions. It’s absurd.

Yeah this is ridiculous and think it will be scrapped by the time I'm 60 but why not scrap it now. Anyone on lots of medication can get that certificate which caps it at approx £10 a month.

maybe they would think twice about not attending if they can’t afford to pay the charge. DNAs cost the NHS a stupid amount of money.

I just think those who can't be bothered to attend & not reschedule will generally be in the can't afford to pay category.

£20 charge if you attend a and e for a reason that is neither and accident or an emergency.

And again how does work? You might think it's an emergency, 111 may have told you it's an emergency or you couldn't get a GP appointment.

Charge for the people who call ambulances unnecessarily.

Older people are often in ambulances because they don't have alternative transport.

The whole thing is a mess.

I think review how some services are delivered. I have to take levothyroxine. And have for the last 34 years. The same dose for 24 then increased slightly. I ve now been on the same dose for ten years. From 1990 until about 2002/3, I got one prescription a year. It worked perfectly. Now it's six prescriptions a year. It wastes my time, GP time and pharmacy time for a drug that is as cheap as chips. It's absurd.

I'm not so sure it's as easy to get ambulances as some think. I have a friend who fractured their arm badly enough to need surgery and also wedged a vertebra when they fell. The ambulance service could not evaluate more than one injury and made my friend state which was the worst. She thought it was the arm as it was bent out of shape. On that basis they wanted her to get up and into a private car. She couldn't because of her back which they refused to consider. She was left on the pavement, in the rain for two and a half hours. It was utterly disgraceful.

I doubt it’s just older voters. Why would they be the exception. I think all age groups in equal measure would be against it tbh. I’d rather not blame the elderly for everything

I’ve read your repeated excuses for people choosing not to work yes. I’ve noted you don’t like me using the word “slackers” for those who can work but choose not to work. I noted your patronising comments about “things are different these days” when I described why slackers were socially condemned in the earlier days of the welfare state.

What I’ve missed is your explanation as to why its ok for able bodied people to choose not to work. They undermine voter confidence in the whole of the welfare state and they do the most damage to the working poor. That is why Reform are competing with Labour in traditional WC seats. Not because they are thick, or stupid as much of the lanyard class would like to claim but because they see the problems with abuses and know they are paying for it.

If you think that is ok and excusable we are not going to agree and I will leave you to it.

I really liked the food🤣. Especially when I wasn’t having to cook it. Although the last time I was in hospital after giving birth trying to get anything vegetarian was hard work. My consultant had to go to the kitchens and do a lot of shouting Aparently From then on it was great. I’d pay. I think whats on offer these days is good

If you want to charge patients for non attendance of appointments you need to spend a lot of money fixing the antiquated appointments systems which make it nigh on impossible for patients to make changes, choose appointments and which send appointment dates out by second class mail on the day of the actual appointment or don’t allow for transport to be arranged where its needed. ie make them at least slightly patient centric.

What would actually save the NHS money is simple to use and consistent appointments systems across the board. I’ve missed appointments in the past due to non arrival of the appointment or inability to change an allocated appointment I couldn’t attend. Its really, really common.

Couldn’t you make a call to tell them u need to cancel. I am aware waiting on the phone for ages is an issue though.

I doubt it’s just older voters. Why would they be the exception.

Because older people will say they are entitled to it, worked all their lives etc & should get it for free. And of course being older means more GP appointments

I think the average worker under 50 will be fine paying if it means they can get an appointment of their choice.

I think all age groups in equal measure would be against it tbh

Why do you think that?

I’d rather not blame the elderly for everything

I don't think acknowledging that older voters are reluctant to vote for things they perceive to penalise them is blaming their for everything. Do you?

Couldn’t you make a call to tell them u need to cancel.

Of course people do this, doesn't mean it actually gets changed...

And this is the problem. Whatever is suggested, there's always a 'but'.

Once again, you have completely failed to understand what I have said and again have failed to come up with any solutions or suggestions to help these long term unemployed get back to work. Apart from that, the UK faces a lot more problems than the long term unemployed. They are just a system of the mess that the UK is in.

I know what Reform are doing and v successfully for the reasons you give. Anyone who has paid attention can see this. I don't think they are thick, anymore than I think those working class voters who voted for Trump are. I think they will both be very disappointed but that's a separate point.

Anyway, there is no point in discussing this anymore because this has become v repetitive.

Of course it's absurd that everyone over 60 gets free prescriptions and ditto that everyone who has an under active thyroid.

Many would no doubt argue with you though and accuse you of ageism, when, in fact the reverse is true. If you started a thread about this, I guarantee that you would get comments about how pensioners have worked all their lives, etc.

Some people aren't able to get through, the line might not be manned all the time, the letter might have the wrong number.

I agree, the systems for communicating appointments to patients are so poor that it's anyone's guess how you'd figure out who counts as a genuine DNA and who wasn't informed that their appointment changed or couldn't get through on the phone.

. I think a variety of ages believe they are entitled to things for free. I don’t believe there’s evidence to the contrary. I don’t think the availability of apointmentd will make any difference in this regard for those unwilling to pay. They’ll still believe they are within their rights . I think all age groups in equal measure because there’s no proof otherwise. The majority of voters vote against something that they perceive will affect them negatively. We only have to read opinions on the PIP changes. Very few, if any, recipients on Mnet threads ,for example, were in favour of reform. It was mainly those not receiving it that wanted some reform. That’s general human nature I’m afraid. (Apologise this isn’t written as neatly as yours..,,,. I really wish I could get paragraphs to work 🥴 ).

I think a variety of ages believe they are entitled to things for free. I don’t believe there’s evidence to the contrary.

I suppose my reasoning is means testing things that we didn't in the past. Moving out state pension age (which is also tied to some public sector pensions) and then the fact the young are less likely to have secure housing (social housing or mortgaged) or have dc. Plus more and more younger people are turning to private healthcare so I can't see why they would disproportionate disagree with paying for a GP appointment. If I was young I'd be rioting in the streets! We will have to agree to disagree.

There was also a lot of nonsense spoken about the proposed PIP cuts too. People stirring things up, others who clearly would not be affected 'terrified' about the future, the lobby groups wheeling out examples of people who probably would not be affected.
Then the deafening chorus of buts and what ifs from people who seemingly want everything to change by changing nothing.
The same would/will happen to every single change suggested.

To add, a lot of the noise about the WFP was by people who were objecting 'on behalf' of pensioners rather than the pensioners themselves!

Exactly. It was political point scoring.

I don't think acknowledging that older voters are reluctant to vote for things they perceive to penalise them is blaming their for everything. Do you?

It applies to everyone, regardless of age. Turkeys tend not to vote for Christmas.

MIL and mother both said hooray when WFP was taken away. However, despite being 89 they still pay tax on their incomes. They are always cold nowadays though and I think there were significant issues at the margins. MIL donated hers to church; mother said bugger that!