Where is the money going to come from to meet the UK people expectations?

[Pandersmum]

So assuming that:

• everyone who receives disability benefits needs them and may actually believe they should be entitled to more
• pensioner benefits are non negotiable and again many believe they should be greater than current
• working people (most) believe they are already taxed highly and believe they cannot be taxed any more without further impact to their feeling of unfairness and resentment of the system
• it is unreasonable to expect young people with ADHD or other similar ND disorders / mental health challenges to work, even if they have qualifications and therefore they must be financially supported by the state
• Mental health challenges are very real in any age of person and therefore they must be financially supported by the state and if in work, by their employers
• rent (whatever level) should be supported by the state because it is a basic right to have a home
• NHS treatment (& the best treatment) should be free be all, no matter how expensive it is or whatever their age because people pay their taxes
• businesses are businesses and are there to make profits for their owners - therefore they can choose which country they operate in / pay their taxes in - if they don’t like the UK tax system, they can move somewhere else
• ’in work benefits’ are necessary to support ‘low paid workers, often in essential jobs’ to gain similar amounts of financial remuneration to those on benefits
• high net worth individuals can move if they don’t like the UK tax system

So just where is the money going to come from to fund the UK population of financial expectation of what the state should provide?

Don't worry, a jolly good war will sort it out, it's somewhat overdue and will shift all the goal posts about.

Usually those who get an early diagnosis are those who are impacted the most
I know some women struggled to get a diagnosis in the past but the girls I know that were diagnosed early are very disabled by their autism and are incapable of living independently.

This will NOT and a popular post but I’m sorry it is reality and the area I have worked in for many decades. The two greatest drains on the benefit system are organised crime manipulating and creating identities to bleed the wholly inadequate Universal Credit system dry.. and the previous government slashing the resources to allow comprehensive timely investigations. £MMs lost this way. An example https://www.google.com/search?q=operation+goliath+dwp+uk&client=safari&sca_esv=8604acb2d6485a04&hl=en-gb&sxsrf=AE3TifOPp4W4qauFocLEGeUazHLnCxNAeg%3A1751120018333&ei=kvhfaPqQFNOikdUPj8WpiQ0&oq=operation+goliath+dwp&gs_lp=EhNtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1zZXJwIhVvcGVyYXRpb24gZ29saWF0aCBkd3AqAggAMgUQIRigAUj08gFQxgtY6ucBcAF4AJABApgB0QagAYQ_qgEOMS4yMC41LjIuMy4xLjG4AQHIAQD4AQGYAhmgAsI0qAIPwgIIEAAYgAQYsAPCAgcQABiwAxgewgIEECMYJ8ICBRAAGIAEwgIFEC4YgATCAgsQLhiABBjHARivAcICCxAAGIAEGJECGIoFwgIHECMYJxjqAsICChAjGIAEGCcYigXCAgsQLhiABBiRAhiKBcICChAAGIAEGEMYigXCAg0QLhiABBhDGNQCGIoFwgILEC4YgAQY0QMYxwHCAggQLhiABBjUAsICCBAAGIAEGMcDwgIKEC4YgAQYQxiKBcICCBAAGBYYChgewgIGEAAYFhgewgIFECEYnwXCAgQQIRgVwgIIEAAYgAQYogSYAwjxBcc8mCTsLTICiAYBkAYRkgcOMi4xMC41LjMuMy4xLjGgB9G2ArIHDjEuMTAuNS4zLjMuMS4xuAe6NMIHBjAuNC4yMcgHZQ&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-serp

This along with the epidemic of unemployed, poorly educated, (mostly) young men - being granted PIP for care AND high rate mobility - many of whom I have come across extensively in my work - driving around in motorbility vehicles dropping off drugs as part of a county lines gang. These kids set up for PIP by one or other parent - usually the mother as she or dad can then claim to be the adult child’s carer - this avoiding any possibility of being forced to attend a jobcentre or look for work. The manipulation of benefits and carers allowance makes me especially angry as I also see many hundreds of people genuinely caring for severely disabled family members . Which is an extremely hard slog with very little respite . Yet they get the same money as a carer that the parent of the drug dealer gets .. just because they say they care for them 35 hours a week.

My first steps when it comes to sorting out the benefits bill so that they go to people who really deserve them is…

1. Biometric ID cards. (This would also make the UK less attractive to small boat arrivals as one of the reasons the UK is so popular is that you don’t need an ID card ). Then no benefit gets paid until you and your card pitch up for in-person verification.
2. Carers allowance. Make it payable solely to those who have had a care needs assessment through the local authority.
3. ADHD not for anyone who has not attended specialist support . This could be run via Jobcentres but would require significant investment. A compulsory assessment and intensive help to find employment to the best of their abilities. A weekly payment whilst attending for six months or employed. After that if symptoms are so severe , a fast track to PIP reviewable every year.

Btw. I was diagnosed with ADHD in 2006 as one of the first adults to be assessed in Kings College. I recognised this could be an issue when my son was undergoing assessment. We both suffer the often debilitating downsides but have both found long term employment that also plays to our strengths.

Agree on inheritance tax. It doesn’t matter to the dead person and the people inheriting it have done nothing to earn it. Plus it perpetuates inequality to a massive degree.

That is exactly what someone who is not real would say 🤣

Simple answer is that expectations have to change.

Taxes and NI will have to go up, won't they. How else is it all going to be paid for. I read not many estates pay Inheritance tax anyway, so unless they significantly lower the threshold, but people would be against that.

VAT on school fees.

Maybe stop pissing away billions on military projects that are not fit for purpose?

There is no money. We borrow to pay for this largesse and borrow some more to pay the debt interest on the money borrowed in the first place.

Obviously printing money for fun was the other ‘go to’ for about 15 years but that turned out to be a disaster with inflation meeting 20% in recent times.

Those who regurgitate the genius ideas about ‘tax the rich’, maybe one day Greg will engage their brain and realise it doesn’t work. It’s been tried and and it failed every time. France tried it and scrapped it for the same reason that it never works. The rich just leave. And to those who say ‘well them them’, I wonder if they think that their peanut taxes are enough to run the country when the rich do leave.

Unfortunately, the problem with this country is the crabs in a bucket mentality. Pull everyone down to be poor. The growth mindset just isn’t there but the beggar handout seeking attitude is stronger than ever.

Or costs such as housing are reduced so that people can actually afford to live on "normal" wages rather than lining the pockets of landlords.

Taxes and NI will go up
Uni fees will be unaffordable for most

It's already been said that income tax thresholds will be frozen, so as people get pay rises they may be caught into a higher tax bracket, to raise tax.

Not so long ago, normal occupations like policing, teaching etc were never expected to be in a 40% tax bracket. In latter years many people have been pushed into a higher bracket.

It’s great that our taxes are being spent on this though. Bravo
🤡

How many f**ing threads on exactly this subject do we need today?

Growth! It’s the only possible way. It’s dismal to think we’ve lost almost two decades now to stagnation. That was Japan when I was growing up. Now it’s us.

So, what can we do that drives growth that doesn’t cost a fortune:

i) deregulate housing/planning,
ii) energy (a nuclear building programme, solar. Not cheap but repays)
iii) tax simplification (and abolish stupid SDLT and inheritance rules that punish downsizing)
iv) more high-quality immigration (expand the non-dom scheme and advertise it. Actively court top graduates and entrepreneurs)
v) probably a big sovereign compute drive (capture AI growth). Also expensive, but you really want to be capital not labour in AI world.

Increasing inheritance tax - sounds good. But what would you do if you faced, say, a 75% tax on your assets, including house, upon your death? You wouldn’t save! You’d be spending like billy-o in your retirement years, probably doing equity release.

Similarly pension “raids” - very short-term thinking as if pensions are not a safe haven then no one will be saving into them.

Just as work doesn’t pay for many people, then if saving fails to pay then people will adapt their behaviour.

30 fcking threads I think.

I am no iv, as is DH and possibly Das.

The recent anti- immigration white paper has not courted me. Rather the opposite.

The issue is that the UK is a low wage economy, with the bottom line of business (both big and small) enabled, facilitated, directly contributed to (call it what you may) by all taxpayers in the form of welfare of various kinds for working people.

There is no way people who are working full time should have to rely on welfare to keep themselves and their families fed and clothed and a roof over their heads.

That kind of malarkey just encourages bad management.

Those baying “tax the rich!” - I hope you’re enjoying Glastonbury. Michael Eavis, that committed Corbynista, has put in place complicated trusts etc to avoid paying inheritance tax. So he doesn’t feel like contributing!

Totally disagree. I want my money that I have worked bloody hard for for many years to go exactly where I wish it to and that is not to the Government but my Children. I have paid enough tax (40%) whilst I am alive, it is a disgraceful tax.

Indeed. We should be thankful that people with lots of options want to come here, enrich our society and build things here, paying far more in tax than they take out.

I see a lot of people with big public sector pensions / NHS pensions retiring or greatly reducing hours at age 55. I don't blame them and they are not relaint on benefits but who is actually working and paying taxes. I guess they are paying some on the private pensions. Out of about 12 people in my office, all between around 50 and 63, there are only two working full time and a lot working 2.5 days a week so likely paying very little tax. I guess some have higher tax paying partners. Then you have huge numbers between 50 and 66 not working due to ill health. I work in benefits for over 50's and the number of couples where both are too unwell to work so the household is solely reliant on benefits is huge. When state pension age keeps rising this will only get worse as more people look to benefits to bridge the gap.. The young people who are working like my eldest ds putting in 60+ hours a week for less than 30k are just getting disillusioned, can't afford to buy a home without parental help ( which we can't give) etc and developing mental health problems just trying to maintain an impossible job with no work/ life balance.
Someone needs to come up with solutions soon.

Those who regurgitate the genius ideas about ‘tax the rich’, maybe one day Greg will engage their brain and realise it doesn’t work. It’s been tried and and it failed every time. France tried it and scrapped it for the same reason that it never works. The rich just leave. And to those who say ‘well them them’, I wonder if they think that their peanut taxes are enough to run the country when the rich do leave.

Not quite true, France have replaced it with a wealth tax based on property.

I’ve just moved to France and will pay a small amount of wealth tax based on the house that we recently purchased.

I don’t mind this because we have better services here. We are very high earners and left the uk for France even though we will pay more tax here. It was Brexit that finished us off and we decided to move.