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Where is the money going to come from to meet the UK people expectations?

1000 replies

Pandersmum · 28/06/2025 14:46

So assuming that:

  • everyone who receives disability benefits needs them and may actually believe they should be entitled to more
  • pensioner benefits are non negotiable and again many believe they should be greater than current
  • working people (most) believe they are already taxed highly and believe they cannot be taxed any more without further impact to their feeling of unfairness and resentment of the system
  • it is unreasonable to expect young people with ADHD or other similar ND disorders / mental health challenges to work, even if they have qualifications and therefore they must be financially supported by the state
  • Mental health challenges are very real in any age of person and therefore they must be financially supported by the state and if in work, by their employers
  • rent (whatever level) should be supported by the state because it is a basic right to have a home
  • NHS treatment (& the best treatment) should be free be all, no matter how expensive it is or whatever their age because people pay their taxes
  • businesses are businesses and are there to make profits for their owners - therefore they can choose which country they operate in / pay their taxes in - if they don’t like the UK tax system, they can move somewhere else
  • ’in work benefits’ are necessary to support ‘low paid workers, often in essential jobs’ to gain similar amounts of financial remuneration to those on benefits
  • high net worth individuals can move if they don’t like the UK tax system

So just where is the money going to come from to fund the UK population of financial expectation of what the state should provide?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
BIossomtoes · 04/07/2025 14:31

Foddplqf · 04/07/2025 14:27

I already contribute enough thank you very much

My dentist is private.

Trained by the NHS. There’s no private training for dentists.

fanmepls · 04/07/2025 14:32

My dentist is private.

isn't everyone's these days! 😆

Foddplqf · 04/07/2025 14:35

BIossomtoes · 04/07/2025 14:31

Trained by the NHS. There’s no private training for dentists.

So what? They would have gone to dentistry school and paid tuition fees.

BIossomtoes · 04/07/2025 14:40

Foddplqf · 04/07/2025 14:35

So what? They would have gone to dentistry school and paid tuition fees.

Their fees wouldn’t touch the sides of the cost of their training. They weren’t practising on private patients before they qualified either.

rainingsnoring · 04/07/2025 14:40

C8H10N4O2 · 04/07/2025 10:00

As someone who has canvassed on the doorstep and campaigned (on the left) the WC and MC responses on this are radically different and denying that is just stupid.

MC liberals on the doorstep invariably have a million reasons why the slacker upthread should be excused and understood for not wanting to take a paid job because it was "only" paying 40% more than his benefits.

Actual working WC voters who have to live with this shit every day whilst putting in a shift, paying their taxes and building a life for their families have a radically different response from the more affluent urban liberals pontificating about “more understanding” for the able bodied healthy but workshy and raising taxes to pay for them.

Matey upthread doesn’t need "understanding" he needs telling to take the job offering 40% more than his benefits and get on with it.

Have you not bothered to read what I wrote or can you not understand it? I agreed with you several posts back about the differences between MC and WC in terms of their attitude. You are just repeating the same thing again and again, while failing to take anything that I am saying on board. Keep complaining if you want but it solves nothing.

Foddplqf · 04/07/2025 14:42

BIossomtoes · 04/07/2025 14:40

Their fees wouldn’t touch the sides of the cost of their training. They weren’t practising on private patients before they qualified either.

We as family pay enough tax as it is.

KellySeveride · 04/07/2025 14:45

Working in the NHS I have some ideas that will help with that. Nominal £10 charge for a did not attend appointment.
£20 charge if you attend a and e for a reason that is neither and accident or an emergency.

Charge for the people who call ambulances unnecessarily.

Make GPs open at weekends and charge them fines if they don’t.

I reckon this would earn some decent cash flow.

RosesAndHellebores · 04/07/2025 14:48

KellySeveride · 04/07/2025 14:45

Working in the NHS I have some ideas that will help with that. Nominal £10 charge for a did not attend appointment.
£20 charge if you attend a and e for a reason that is neither and accident or an emergency.

Charge for the people who call ambulances unnecessarily.

Make GPs open at weekends and charge them fines if they don’t.

I reckon this would earn some decent cash flow.

I agree, but how would you get the money?

I'd be happy to pay a small charge up front and recover it through social insurance. Like on the Continent.

I'd also support everyone having a health passport digitally that contains details of treatments received and their cumulative cost. From an information perspective. I think it would be helpful for people to know how much consultations, scans, procedures and drugs cost.

BIossomtoes · 04/07/2025 14:51

Foddplqf · 04/07/2025 14:42

We as family pay enough tax as it is.

So you keep saying.

DrPrunesqualer · 04/07/2025 14:55

MyObservations · 04/07/2025 11:26

Why the £50k? Why not just any income? You're picking and choosing your limits here.

Agree. Why not on everything over £1. So everyone pays tax.

RowsOfFlowers · 04/07/2025 14:56

Foddplqf · 04/07/2025 14:27

I already contribute enough thank you very much

My dentist is private.

My dentist is private too, and I have Bupa as well.

rainingsnoring · 04/07/2025 15:00

Daffodilsarefading · 04/07/2025 08:19

I do not thing the electorate would vote for higher taxes. It’s ok to pay more tax if the person paying it benefits, otherwise I think it’s a hard no. Let’s face it. Would you seriously vote to have to keep working full time until you are 70 to pay for those who don’t work? With the undercurrent that as a working person you will be screwed over with your state pension and the money you have scrimped and saved to put aside for your retirement, will be classed as a luxury. Knowing full well that those who chose not to do without will be better off. That everything you have strived and worked hard for will be taken away from you whilst again those who chose to ‘piss their money up the wall’ will be cared for by the taxes your children are paying for. That your children are ripped off with extortionate rents and cannot afford to buy a house. Cannot afford to have children until they are older and then cannot afford to have the number of children which they see those who don’t work having.
That whilst your hard working child has to live in a tiny flat and work shitty hours to pay for it, another person gets it for free because they don’t work or work very little hours. That you cannot get a doctors appointment because you work. That A & E is full of scrubbers high on drugs or sat there with what seems like an entire family taking up space. Why are they not at work?
No, the time has come for us to adopt a more Scandinavian approach. If you receive benefits you are expected to get a job. If you don’t get a job, and let’s face it , it isn’t always easy, the state will provided one for you. You can clean the streets for a kick off.

I agree. I think we've got to the point where many of those who work hard for a living feel, in general, that they are already paying a lot of tax. This obviously applies far more to those who pay tax at 40% or above plus NI as they are genuinely are paying a lot of tax and not receiving much for it, unless they are wealthy and were bought houses by mum and dad, have private healthcare as a benefit, etc.
It isn't just those who don't work that are the problem though; I think that's simplistic. It's the whole tax system that needs to be changed. The very wealthy, who don't work, pay far less tax as a % than a higher rate tax payer. I remember seeing Sunak's TR when it was published and his tax rate was around 22% on 2million+ of income, I think. Anyone who works hard and pays more tax is clearly going to resent extremely wealthy people managing to minimise their tax bills with expensive accountants. Pensioners paying no NI, while being the highest users of the NHS is clearly unfair too.

I agree that those who are on long term benefits, bar those who are 100% incapable, need to be encouraged back to work. Unfortunately, this is an ingrained problem now of 2-3 generations, after Thatcher started to close manufacturing industry and decided that the UK would do brilliantly as a service economy instead. That hasn't worked out too well (understatement). So many skilled workers lost their jobs and they and their communities have never recovered. So yes, of course people who can should be working but they will need support and retraining and mental health support, none of which exist!! A final relevant point is where will the jobs come from? At present, we are heading for a recession and people are losing their jobs. That now applies to white collar workers, not just blue as happened previously. As I said, the whole thing needs a rethink. Trump, despite his many, glaring faults, appears to have realised this, while the UK and EU leaders are flailing around and doing nothing so far.

Foddplqf · 04/07/2025 15:01

RowsOfFlowers · 04/07/2025 14:56

My dentist is private too, and I have Bupa as well.

Good on us?

fanmepls · 04/07/2025 15:02

Working in the NHS I have some ideas that will help with that. Nominal £10 charge for a did not attend appointment.

I can afford this but I and everyone I know hardly ever go to the GP and if we do go we damn well sure don't miss it. Surely those most likely to miss appointments will be those who can't pay?

DrPrunesqualer · 04/07/2025 15:03

Foddplqf · 04/07/2025 12:01

I've never relied on public services. I prefer to buy something if I need it. I have Bupa. I'll be fine. Money gets thrown at the NHS each year and nothing happens.

DH is already in the maximum tax bracket and pays enough tax as it is. We've had enough and want to enjoy the fruits of our labour.

I’m not sure the relevance of your dhs tax payments as he is not you so why is it relevant. Tax is per person not per family. We each pay our fare share or at least should.

rainingsnoring · 04/07/2025 15:03

KellySeveride · 04/07/2025 14:45

Working in the NHS I have some ideas that will help with that. Nominal £10 charge for a did not attend appointment.
£20 charge if you attend a and e for a reason that is neither and accident or an emergency.

Charge for the people who call ambulances unnecessarily.

Make GPs open at weekends and charge them fines if they don’t.

I reckon this would earn some decent cash flow.

I agree I principle that there need to be charges introduced but I think that the whole thing needs changing. I think we will have to move towards an insurance system where everyone pays something. I don't think you can penalise professionals, running a small business for choosing not to provide a service. You can pay them more for providing additional services. GPs do actually provide a weekend service, just not as many appointments as patients would like.

MyObservations · 04/07/2025 15:04

DrPrunesqualer · 04/07/2025 14:55

Agree. Why not on everything over £1. So everyone pays tax.

Good idea, let's include children as well, then we'll all be paying tax on everything which will really incentivise saving for the future. 🙄

Foddplqf · 04/07/2025 15:04

DrPrunesqualer · 04/07/2025 15:03

I’m not sure the relevance of your dhs tax payments as he is not you so why is it relevant. Tax is per person not per family. We each pay our fare share or at least should.

DH provides me for and our kids. We are together as a family. He's already taxed to the bone. We don't want to pay anymore.

DrPrunesqualer · 04/07/2025 15:05

fanmepls · 04/07/2025 15:02

Working in the NHS I have some ideas that will help with that. Nominal £10 charge for a did not attend appointment.

I can afford this but I and everyone I know hardly ever go to the GP and if we do go we damn well sure don't miss it. Surely those most likely to miss appointments will be those who can't pay?

@fanmepls i can’t find who suggested the £10 charge or I’d tag them. To carry on from this saving the nhs money I’ve often thought we should charge patients for meals whilst they are in hospital. Any thoughts mumsnetters.

fanmepls · 04/07/2025 15:07

To carry on from this saving the nhs money I’ve often thought we should charge patients for meals whilst they are in hospital

I wouldn't have an issue with this but again those who tend to stay the longest will likely be older people or dc so how much will it actually save?

RowsOfFlowers · 04/07/2025 15:09

rainingsnoring · 04/07/2025 15:00

I agree. I think we've got to the point where many of those who work hard for a living feel, in general, that they are already paying a lot of tax. This obviously applies far more to those who pay tax at 40% or above plus NI as they are genuinely are paying a lot of tax and not receiving much for it, unless they are wealthy and were bought houses by mum and dad, have private healthcare as a benefit, etc.
It isn't just those who don't work that are the problem though; I think that's simplistic. It's the whole tax system that needs to be changed. The very wealthy, who don't work, pay far less tax as a % than a higher rate tax payer. I remember seeing Sunak's TR when it was published and his tax rate was around 22% on 2million+ of income, I think. Anyone who works hard and pays more tax is clearly going to resent extremely wealthy people managing to minimise their tax bills with expensive accountants. Pensioners paying no NI, while being the highest users of the NHS is clearly unfair too.

I agree that those who are on long term benefits, bar those who are 100% incapable, need to be encouraged back to work. Unfortunately, this is an ingrained problem now of 2-3 generations, after Thatcher started to close manufacturing industry and decided that the UK would do brilliantly as a service economy instead. That hasn't worked out too well (understatement). So many skilled workers lost their jobs and they and their communities have never recovered. So yes, of course people who can should be working but they will need support and retraining and mental health support, none of which exist!! A final relevant point is where will the jobs come from? At present, we are heading for a recession and people are losing their jobs. That now applies to white collar workers, not just blue as happened previously. As I said, the whole thing needs a rethink. Trump, despite his many, glaring faults, appears to have realised this, while the UK and EU leaders are flailing around and doing nothing so far.

Agreed. Good points!

DrPrunesqualer · 04/07/2025 15:09

Foddplqf · 04/07/2025 15:04

DH provides me for and our kids. We are together as a family. He's already taxed to the bone. We don't want to pay anymore.

So you don’t pay any tax and don’t want tax rises because you’ll lose out financially because your dh will be taxed more. Think the consensus on here is that working age people should work and everyone should pay their equal share of taxes. At the moment you pay none so are not contributing to the system as you’re not working.

Foddplqf · 04/07/2025 15:10

I do pay tax. I work part time as a receptionist (at a dentist).

DrPrunesqualer · 04/07/2025 15:11

fanmepls · 04/07/2025 15:07

To carry on from this saving the nhs money I’ve often thought we should charge patients for meals whilst they are in hospital

I wouldn't have an issue with this but again those who tend to stay the longest will likely be older people or dc so how much will it actually save?

Everyone should pay don’t you think. If they were living at home they’d have to buy food. ( with the exception perhaps if homeless people who have nothing and no money )

fanmepls · 04/07/2025 15:41

Everyone should pay don’t you think.

Well yes but older voters won't vote for it. Thats the issue.

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