Where is the money going to come from to meet the UK people expectations?

[Pandersmum]

So assuming that:

• everyone who receives disability benefits needs them and may actually believe they should be entitled to more
• pensioner benefits are non negotiable and again many believe they should be greater than current
• working people (most) believe they are already taxed highly and believe they cannot be taxed any more without further impact to their feeling of unfairness and resentment of the system
• it is unreasonable to expect young people with ADHD or other similar ND disorders / mental health challenges to work, even if they have qualifications and therefore they must be financially supported by the state
• Mental health challenges are very real in any age of person and therefore they must be financially supported by the state and if in work, by their employers
• rent (whatever level) should be supported by the state because it is a basic right to have a home
• NHS treatment (& the best treatment) should be free be all, no matter how expensive it is or whatever their age because people pay their taxes
• businesses are businesses and are there to make profits for their owners - therefore they can choose which country they operate in / pay their taxes in - if they don’t like the UK tax system, they can move somewhere else
• ’in work benefits’ are necessary to support ‘low paid workers, often in essential jobs’ to gain similar amounts of financial remuneration to those on benefits
• high net worth individuals can move if they don’t like the UK tax system

So just where is the money going to come from to fund the UK population of financial expectation of what the state should provide?

Its not that simple, for starters, even a NMW pays considerably more, around 400% more than a single persons UC, so incentive is there.

Parents with children & renting, get far more but should the children suffer because of the children? esp with a SENS diagnosis.

So lets take your young person not in work for 6months or more, maybe never worked? no one will employ them as they have no or little work history, no experience... maybe have anxiety? i wouldn't give them a job.

BUT luckily the Kings Trust did give the young man i know a chance, funded to work at M&S, loving it, independent, own money, sense of pride.

Perhaps M&S will take him on but either way this is the way forward for the long term unemployed, not calling them slackers and lazy arses.

But the upside is that other parts of the UK benefit from professionals leaving London because they can't afford to live there, to live and work elsewhere.

Interesting take. Many simply left the profession so I am not sure how much of an upside there is.

But the key to my comment was the last line of the post "There was such a turnover of young staff as they often left London".

Many doctors are struggling to get jobs in the uk.

That's true but for a totally different reason and unrelated to their professional competencies. Wes Streeting has just announced that they will change the way they are recruiting so hopefully things will improve.

One thing that really gets to me is the breakdown in communications as social hierarchies explode and people come in, and the whole concept of collective public endeavours fragmented.

Every single sector I’ve looked into is struggling. Even the expanding ones, care for the boomers and the servicing of male apes’ never ending sexual appetites, come with huge costs and decreasing returns.
One of the few justifications for spending time on here is picking up the news and info about diverse paths and lifestyles, and there really is nowhere not in trouble except being born into serious wealth.

In most cases it’s quite clearly due to the increasing demands at a lower level, for qualifications and skills with no returns, which have led to a ‘chew up and spit out’ mentality / high turnover of staff - just like old low skill jobs were - and no one can justify the expense of trying to better oneself: too much comes down to social politicking and personal connection: and so skills are being lost.

Just the fragmentation our elites love.

i can’t really grasp the mentality of being willing to destroy entire civilisations to make yourself an extra few million that you can never spend because …, civilization is collapsing around you. I’ve never had any social security blankets so I can’t imagine feeling that immune.

Good to hear

shame it didn’t happen in the first place

People will have to pay more tax.

I pay 39% tax in Denmark...but...
Same day appointments with GP and nurse
Most I ever waited in A&E is 45 minutes, usually its less than half an hour. My child had a fracture and was in and out within 2 hours, x-rayed, cast the lot.
Clean streets
Roads all in good order
Subsidised municipal heating
Parks and nature all accessible and lovely and tidy and maintained
Clean beaches and clean bathing water
20ish kids in each class at school
Heavily subsidised childcare until school start
Low crime rates
Excellent social care provision
Wonderful libraries, museums, cultural events from the municipality.
Sports heavily subsidised by government and excellent facilities, even out in the cuds.

Would I like to pay less tax? Well yes, wouldn't we all? But I can see where the money is spent and it is all to the benefit of the people.

Do you feel that’s all down to higher tax alone?

What is the bigger picture? What is the population in Denmark? How many old vs young? How many in and out of work? How much is property? What is the cost of living? Etc

Sounds great but am I right in thinking you have a lower population and less immigration

@WaryCrow

i can’t really grasp the mentality of being willing to destroy entire civilisations to make yourself an extra few million that you can never spend because …, civilization is collapsing around you.

It's been the same for thousands of years. Entire empires and civilisations have crumbled due to the greed of those at the top. It's really not a new thing.

Our immigration rate is 14.2% of our population in 2024 compared to the UK's 17.1% of population. We also have a strict policy that tends to favour those who can work and contribute to economy and welfare state.

All good questions. I think it is a very large part of it. Also the Danes, culturally have a very community focused outlook. There's a lot of volunteering done and money left to benefit others when one passes.
Population is just hitting 6 million and we have an aging population with median age of 41.3 compared to UK's 40.7. There is a focus on people having more children so paternity and maternity leave is very generous and childcare is subsidised.
Property is very cheap in some parts of the country but in the bigger cities it's much more expensive. But, people can live outside and commute because the transport networks and good and reliable. A five bed house where I live can be had for 200,000 GBP if you don't mind spending time and money updating it. There is also very reasonable rental property and housing cooperatives.
Employment rates are high. If you're not employed you have to be actively job seeking and then, if you haven't found a job within 6 months one is found for you (could be anything but mostly working for the municipality doing maintenance type tasks). In addition, people in employment pay into something called an A-kasse, which pays up to 12 months wages should they become unemployed.
Cost of living is high, but there are ways to cut back if you shop all the deals at the supermarkets. We have a high standard of living.

I do think as well, the population is much much healthier and better looked after which means we work more and for longer and don't cost the state so much in health care.

I wish ours was, plus the never ending arrivals by boat

Wow, that all sounds amazing. A 5 bed house for £200k?! (Not that I need a 5 bed house).

Can I come?! 🥹😅😂

People will have to pay more tax.I pay 39% tax in Denmark

but because of housing costs many lower and middle earners can't actually pay more tax.

I understand. Danes do get tax reductions based on how much money is owed on mortgages, wonder if the UK could do something like that or if the cost of property would make that unfeasible?

Or the interest, anyway
https://skat.dk/en-us/individuals/deductions-and-allowances/deduction-for-interest-expenses

Yes, if you can get a work permit :)
https://storbritannien.um.dk/en/travel-and-residence/moving-to-denmark

Here's a house for sale for less than 185k GBP
https://ejendroem.dk/ejendomme/noerremarkvej-15-darum-mark-6740-bramming-900000841/#property-gallery-16

Danes do get tax reductions based on how much money is owed on mortgages, wonder if the UK could do something like that or if the cost of property would make that unfeasible?

I don't know @shoopshoopshopp. I wouldn't moan so much about tax if I felt like I could see the benefits of it. It's education that really bothers me, we should be investing so much more into dc but some how it's not about the young anymore here.

@shoopshoopshopp there used to be a mortgage rate interest relief but it was abolished approx 20 yrs ago unfortunately.

I think there's a strong argument for giving some kind of tax relief on commuting costs and child care costs for workers who can't work from home. And yes, maybe a return to some kind of MIRAS relief for mortgage interest AND rents that workers pay. Maybe make it a relief against NIC so that it's only workers liable to NIC that get the relief to limit the cost to those who need it the most (and who are already paying more tax than non workers due to NIC!).

That is a gorgeous property 💛💛

There's a load of pensioner bashing stuff on news sites right now, as if the majority of pensioners don't pay taxes or contribute to the economy with paying off their children's debts or doing free childcare. It's off the scale and makes me wonder if the future scenario is state enabled topping of pensioners.