To think “non-binary” is becoming a fashion statement for some people rather than a true identity?

[ByPoliteExpert]

Not saying it’s not real but the aestheticisation of it is creeping in.

If you buy into the concept of gender identity at all, then I think you have to just accept that people have whatever identity they say they have. If you believe that non-binary is a thing in the first place, who the fuck are you to say that others may not be genuine in identifying as such? You can't possibly know how others feel.

Personally, I think the whole thing is a load of bullshit based on stupid stereotypes about the sexes. I therefore consider gender identity to be a fabricated concept, and "non-binary" is just another made-up aspect of that concept. And I think that the entire thing is a performative fashion statement.

Very few people above a certain age have a "gender identity". We just know what sex we are, and we choose to adopt or reject the stereotypes associated with our sex as we see fit.

‘How someone internally understands and experiences their own gender’

Can you please explain this more @ByPoliteExpert? I don’t understand what it means. Thanks.

For others, the binary categories simply never fit

Bollocks.

Other than a vanishingly tiny percentage of people with a very rare medical disorder, the binary sex categories fit everyone perfectly.

I don't give a shit what outfits or hairstyles you like. If you have a penis, you're a man and if you have a vagina you're a woman.

That's all there is. 'Non-binary' is just made up nonsense by people who long to feel more special and unique than they are.

It’s always performative, otherwise no one would know about it. These “NB” people would keep it to themselves and we could all go about our lives without being bored shitless by self involved eejits banging on about their “gender”.

A lot of this can get muddled, especially when gender stereotypes are so ingrained. What you’ve described is exactly why it’s important to separate expression from identity. You don’t have to like dresses, pink or traditional “feminine” things to be a woman. You are a woman because that’s how you identify, regardless of how you dress, what you like or who you hang out with.

Being non-binary isn’t about rejecting femininity or not fitting a mould, it’s about not identifying as solely male or female at all. So your example actually reinforces the point: gender identity is internal. You know you’re a woman, even if your interests or style don’t match the stereotype.

I guess that while I think non-binary is a bit nonsensical, I believe people have the right to identify as non-binary if they like, just as they have the right to follow a particular religion or belief system that I don't happen to follow.

However I think non-binary becomes a problem when:

• People think they can ignore single sex boundaries e.g. non-binary males thinking it's okay to enter female-only spaces
• People (often young, autistic) thinking they need to do drastic things to their body due to being non-binary e.g. having healthy breasts removed.

All social identities are performative. Being masculine or being feminine—or being a manly or unmanly man are just as performative and aesthetic as non binary. Let people do their iwn thing.

"you are a woman because that’s how you identify"

No, I'm a woman because that is my sex. Woman is most definitely not something that is created by societal expectations or norms!

Gosh, op. You are in so deep with this gender woo that I don't think any rope could haul you out.

Gender identity is more specific: it’s how someone internally understands themselves in relation to gender (male, female, both, neither, etc) regardless of how they act or dress

gender is a social construct (patriarchal and regressive) you mean sex

you are male or female the rest is impossible

i find the whole gender movement really odd as it seems to be built on a negative social construct

Not everyone feels a strong internal gender identify and that’s fine. For many people, their gender and their sex just align without much thought. They don’t question it - they just are. That’s totally valid.

But for others, there’s a disconnect. Their internal sense of self doesn’t sit comfortably with the labels or expectations of “man” or “woman.” That’s where gender identify becomes more consciously felt - not as a performance but as something that doesn’t quite fit what society has mapped out.

You don’t need to find your gender identity if you already feel settled. The concept mostly exists to help people who don’t - people whose experience would either be hard to explain or name.

I wish I knew what 'identifying' (in this context) means or feels like . I don't identify as a woman, I just am a woman.

I am a woman because I was born female and survived to adulthood. I don’t “identify” as a woman any more than I “identify” as being 5’6” or having brown hair.

No men are women, and no humans are neither male nor female.

Until a decade ago no one had even heard of gender identity, which is built entirely on regressive stereotypes and some unknowable internal sense that we apparently all have except most of us don’t seem to.

Hopefully in another decade gender ideology will have disappeared up its own arse like the people who believe in it already have.

All non-binary is performative claptrap, even by the ones who really seem to believe in it.

But if you're so determined that it's internal, then who are you to say that it's just a fashion statement for some? What qualifies you to assess their internal experience?

If it's all about how people feel, ie how they choose to interpret their experience, then you have to accept whatever they say about it. There is no such thing as "genuine non-binary" vs "being non-binary as a fashion statement" because it isn't a thing at all...it is based purely on self definition and has no meaning beyond that.

But what is a gender identity other than a "feeling " ? Or more realistically a belief system that forces itself on everyone else.
People running around claiming an oh so special gender identity whilst insisting that everyone else has one too only most are just boring "cis" identifies are no different to any other religious zealot trying to force their beliefs on everyone else.
I don't have a gender identity nor do I have any type of soul!
I don't identify as a woman or female I just am because that's the body I was born with.
We really need to stop telling people that the way to fix body dismorphia (a mental health problem) by changing their bodies and expecting everyone to play along

Substitute "identify as" for "pretending to be" - might help.

You are a woman because that’s how you identify...

0/10.

You are a woman because you are a human of the female sex.

Just as a mare is an equid of the female sex or a cow is a bovid of the female sex.

Mammalian biology.

What if I don't have a gender identity?

‘Most people don’t conform to every gender norm but still identify with the gender they were assigned at birth.’

On my phone so can’t highlight the OP’s quote above.

No-one’s gender is ASSIGNED at birth. The midwife/doctor observes the baby’s SEX.

Ah, then that means you're not special enough and you have to and sit in the corner in your pink dress and high heels and do your make up and weep gently into your knitting.

Becoming? That’s what it’s always been: well for as long as the term has been around, which isn’t that long really.

So basically if you don’t conform to a set of outdated sexist stereotypes you’re non binary. Awesome. I’m non binary. Now what?

I get where you’re coming from, it can sound confusing, especially when identity doesn’t follow clear external rules or categories. But not all identities need to be rigidly defined to be meaningful.

Non-binary is an umbrella term, it covers a range of experiences where someone doesn’t identify strictly as male or female. That doesn’t mean it’s anything goes on just a personality. It’s still about someone’s internal sense of gender, not just their traits or preferences.

The diversity you’re pointing to, all the different labels, often comes from people trying to describe nuanced experiences in a world that’s long been very binary. You don’t have to relate to it personally for it to be valid for someone else.

I think the other problem OP is people conflating sex and gender identity.

So it may be fair enough to say "I'm non-binary, I don't identify as male and female". But that's often interpreted as "I don't have a sex; I am neither male nor female". Which is of course not true.

For example if you tried to refer to someone as a non-binary male or a non-binary female they'd probably get quite offended, as you would be undermining their non-binary identity.

Often of course it shouldn't matter what sex someone is. However sometimes sex does matter (single-sex spaces, sports, dating, etc ...) and some people would use non-binary to avoid being honest about their sex.

Didn't freud coin the word becoming, refering to his schizophrenic patient who insisted he was becoming a wolf? Might be wrong but I think I read that.